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Dealing with loss
#1
Dealing with loss
I'm not really 100% if this is the right place to discuss this. On the other hand it feels like this is as good (or as bad) as any other place.

Quite recently my father passed away. It is the most serious loss I've ever suffered. It is only now that the fact that my father is gone is really beginning to sink in. It's hard not to become overwhelmed by negative thoughts emotions. I'n fact it's even tempting to let them.
One thing that's been extremely hard to deal with is all the practical things. Its both emotionally and physically draining. Another thing that's been smothering me is the sheer existential horror of the situation. This is the first truly irreversable event in my life. Everything else, I've at least been able to try to change, no matter how hopeless it may seem. But this -- no matter what I do, my father is still going to be gone. It brings to mind a feeling and a thought that I've had from time to time in my life. That our existence in and of itself is rather pointless. At least for all I am aware. Not a very cheerful thought, I know. I'll just have to take comfort in the fact that it doesn't torture me very often.
I've always been an atheist, and I still am. But it strikes me now, how utterly incapable the secular world seems when it comes to providing resolution and comfort in this kind of situation. All I see are useless platitudes and intellectualizations that lead you back where you started. Medicine, psychology, philosophies, sciences of all kinds... Sometimes I've felt I'd be willing to trade all of that for just a simple comforting hug.
The secular world seems to want to either run from the problem or hide it away. We are born, we exist for a short time, and then we die. All that we thought we were is erased, except the atoms that made up our bodies. Knowing the scientific principles behind this stark reality gives me no confort at all.
Scientists like to point to the wonderful complexity and seeming greatness of the universe as something to hold on to and cherish. I've always felt, and perhaps now more than ever, that this is some horseshit from people who like to feel that they're right.
Evolution, genetics, and so on. Fine -- I know about all that. But take an emotion like love hurt, for example. There is probably some evolutionary answer to why we have this emotion. I would guess, its because we're reminded not to give up on the person we've found suitable for mating. But why does this feeling persist long after all hope is lost, driving people too all kinds of antisocial and self-destructive behavior?
I'll tell you what I think. Its like the appendix. A useless vestige that will breed away in a few thousand generations, perhaps. But its not going to happen any time during our lives. Wonderful and complex sad shit, is what it is.
Psychology is really, really bad when it comes to things like this. If there is something I've learned through experience in my life, its that I don't 'deal' with things like this. I don't 'process' or somehow learn to accept them. What has happened, has happened. Enough time passes and for some reason that I don't pretend to understand, I just go on with my life.
Secular Sweden is staggeringly bad at providing ceremonies and so on that deal with loss and grief. I've come to experience this myself for the first time. It is a religious ceremony with all the god taken out. Granted -- I would rather have this than nothing, or a religious ceremony that would be an affront to my father's memory. He was an atheist, to say the least.
Ok. This was rather a lot. But I felt I wanted to vent a little. It's been a rough few days.






























































































































































































































































































































































































































































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#2
RE: Dealing with loss
I lost my dad ten years ago and i had similar thoughts, feelings. I wasn't atheist back then but i also wasn't a religious person.
Looking back, i think the most comforting thing about this was probably reminiscing our good moments together. The time we have here on earth is precious, so we have to remember good moments with those who we lost.

This is what helped me the most to get through with this. Can't guarantee it's gonna work for everyone.

My condolences Sven.
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#3
RE: Dealing with loss
Sven,

My sincere condolences for the loss of your father. Death is so difficult to deal with - even for Christians. No one wants to say goodbye to those we loved so much in this life.

I have no platitudes or cliches to offer you. My only remark is for atheists in general.
An atheist, by definition is someone who does not believe in god(s). That is all. YET, you atheists tend to pile on. It's not just god is it? It's anything and everything that you cannot see or touch. My question to you is: Why must belief in the soul be attached to belief in god? There's no reason you can't separate them.

Belief in the existence of the soul ...

1. Does not make you an idiot.
2. Does not mean that you think souls live forever.
3. Does not mean that you think souls go to heaven or hell.
4. Does not mean that your loved ones are necessarily floating around you.
5. Does not mean that you have to believe what even ONE other person believes about the soul.
...etc...etc...


There is SO much unexplainable phenomena that happens on this planet that one cannot rule out the possibility that some "souls" may live on to either reincarnate or guide those who would. My only point here is that for some bizarre reason, atheists think that they are not allowed to believe in anything. As if some tiny fleck of belief will somehow damage or tarnish their standing as a bona fide atheist. Nonsense. I offer no evidence for my beliefs and answer those who ask honestly: I do not know what happens to the soul, but it is my belief that I may see my loved one again.
[Image: Evolution.png]

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#4
RE: Dealing with loss
(April 19, 2014 at 1:07 pm)Cinjin Wrote: Sven,

My sincere condolences for the loss of your father. Death is so difficult to deal with - even for Christians. No one wants to say goodbye to those we loved so much in this life.

I have no platitudes or cliches to offer you. My only remark is for atheists in general.
An atheist, by definition is someone who does not believe in god(s). That is all. YET, you atheists tend to pile on. It's not just god is it? It's anything and everything that you cannot see or touch. My question to you is: Why must belief in the soul be attached to belief in god? There's no reason you can't separate them.

Well, I suppose you're right about the term atheist. I could say I'm a sceptic (to say the least) when it comes to supernatural things. I myself do not believe in the soul, reincarnation, or any type of afterlife.






























































































































































































































































































































































































































































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#5
RE: Dealing with loss
(April 19, 2014 at 3:38 pm)sven Wrote: Well, I suppose you're right about the term atheist. I could say I'm a sceptic (to say the least) when it comes to supernatural things. I myself do not believe in the soul, reincarnation, or any type of afterlife.

I'm a skeptic too brother.
The difference between me and most others is that I will not disregard all evidence just because of hoaxers and frauds. Too often I find that many self-proclaimed skeptics are far more than skeptics. They refuse to even consider any possibility other than the reality they have accepted as finite. This is not a condemnation of your person Sven, but rather an observation I have made for many years.

If when analyzing any random event we can safely say that we have eliminated all possible natural explanation and have exhausted the consideration of even the implausible than we must assume that the unrevealed metaphysical is possible.
[Image: Evolution.png]

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#6
RE: Dealing with loss
(April 19, 2014 at 3:56 pm)Cinjin Wrote: If when analyzing any random event we can safely say that we have eliminated all possible natural explanation and have exhausted the consideration of even the implausible than we must assume that the unrevealed metaphysical is possible.

That's interesting. Have you ever experienced something like that?

I suppose I will soon be joining your strange cult after asking this Wink






























































































































































































































































































































































































































































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#7
RE: Dealing with loss
I lost my Mum 10 years ago when I was 17. There is no set way to deal with loss, you just have to go with it and do what you have to do to get by. You will feel shit that doesn't make sense, and more shit that you'll probably feel guilty or disgusted with yourself to be feeling. That's all normal and it will not last forever. That horrible empty feeling like something has been ripped out of your chest, however, doesn't go away. Ever. You just get used to it being there, and accept that the pain will sometimes hit you full-force either in reaction to a memory, or just seemingly at random. That's life.
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#8
RE: Dealing with loss
(April 19, 2014 at 4:33 pm)NoraBrimstone Wrote: That horrible empty feeling like something has been ripped out of your chest, however, doesn't go away. Ever. You just get used to it being there, and accept that the pain will sometimes hit you full-force either in reaction to a memory, or just seemingly at random. That's life.

Well, I actually don't quite feel that way about this, which scares me in some ways. It leads me to even deeper existensialistic pains, if you know what I mean. I would probably feel that way if my mother died, however. And she will, which is even more scary.






























































































































































































































































































































































































































































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#9
RE: Dealing with loss
Sven, I'm truly sorry for your loss. You have my deepest sympathies. I can only imagine how you may feel - I very nearly lost my father last year and the several months long ordeal was heart wrenching.

All I can say is to allow yourself to feel what you feel and work through it. It's not easy, and everyone deals with in in their own way.
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#10
RE: Dealing with loss
(April 19, 2014 at 12:17 pm)sven Wrote: It brings to mind a feeling and a thought that I've had from time to time in my life. That our existence in and of itself is rather pointless. At least for all I am aware.
We can provide eachother with purpose as well as any god could. The only difference is finite vs infinite, but something finite can still be enough.

(April 19, 2014 at 12:17 pm)sven Wrote: The secular world seems to want to either run from the problem or hide it away. We are born, we exist for a short time, and then we die. All that we thought we were is erased, except the atoms that made up our bodies. Knowing the scientific principles behind this stark reality gives me no confort at all.
You've got it backwards. Religion provides "emotion-focused coping" rather than "problem-focused coping". In fact, religion tells you there wasn't even a problem to begin with, which is why it's useless.

Death is a problem we can solve.

(April 19, 2014 at 12:17 pm)sven Wrote: Evolution, genetics, and so on. Fine -- I know about all that. But take an emotion like love hurt, for example. There is probably some evolutionary answer to why we have this emotion. I would guess, its because we're reminded not to give up on the person we've found suitable for mating. But why does this feeling persist long after all hope is lost, driving people too all kinds of antisocial and self-destructive behavior?
I'll tell you what I think. Its like the appendix. A useless vestige that will breed away in a few thousand generations, perhaps. But its not going to happen any time during our lives. Wonderful and complex sad shit, is what it is.
We experience stress because it can be useful.
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