Marriage discrimination struck down in Arkansas.

[Rampant.A.I.]

You do understand that nobody here is demanding you be silent, right? I mean, the thread is, what, fourteen pages of people jousting back and forth over this issue, I don't think that implies a lack of willingness to have these beliefs out there.

What I will do, however, is point out the inconsistencies in your reasoning, if I feel that they're there. Which is all I've done here.

You do understand that nobody here is demanding you be silent, right?

No. I never said that. I just think some of you guys need to be reminded every so often that there's others who have different view points from the ones some of you have. The jousting back and forth is fine, but when debates deteriorate to personal attacks and name calling over differences of opinions no one can claim tolerance. If you disagree with me that's fine. There's no way that I expect my views to be accepted by the majority here. That's the nature of this forum. I have no problem with it. I do think we could debate issues without a lot of the hostility over disagreements though. But, I can handle that too.

Good, because of you were whining and playing victim for your bigotry, while demanding equal treatment and respect you deny to others... Oh wait, that's exactly what you were doing.

---

They actually struck down Marriage itself, yet know not what they do.
Poor dumb bastards.

Nonsense.

How does two men or two women who love each other and getting married invalidate anyone's straight marriage?

Does two unmarried women or two unmarried men having sex invalidate your own sexual experiences?

Only if you're like the majority of anti-homosexual bigots who blame "the gays" for their inability to stop obsessing over gay sex, yet seem to almost unilaterally end up tapping code with their feet in bathroom stalls.

[FlyingNarwhal]

I'm from MA, so let me share a couple of facts. 1)Our marriage rate is also one of the lowest in the country to begin with, and its been dropping just like our divorce rate has. 2)MA divorce laws are draconian.

I don't think gay marriage is do anything for or against the rest of the marriages in the state.

[LostLocke]

They actually struck down Marriage itself, yet know not what they do.
Poor dumb bastards.

Striking down marriage would be not recognizing any marriage.

[Esquilax]

I really have no time to explain my position on this "marriage equality" bullcrap.
I merely have stated that this "marriage" that they are proposing is not even marriage.

Because if anyone gets to decide what is and isn't marriage, it's you, right?

Its merely another ploy of the liberal, rootless cosmopolitan mindset to redefine social institutions and traditions. Lets re-define everything to suit the purposes of minorities.

Yeah, let's take marriage back to its roots, since traditions should never change: it should still be an exchange of property between a woman's father and a man she's never met who's looking for an addition to his harem of slaves and multiple wives!

After all, redefining social institutions is for libruls!

Sounds to me like the dictatorship of minorities such as the homosexuals over the majority of normal people.

And if anyone gets to define normal, it's you, isn't it?

Besides, the polls are clearly turning toward acceptance of LGBT folks. We'll see how long you keep squawking about how important the majority is once it actually sinks into you right wing bigot's thick heads that you're no longer in it.

[Heywood]

Because if anyone gets to decide what is and isn't marriage, it's you, right?

In Arkansas it was one judge who got to decide what is and isn't marriage.

It should be the people who decide....not one person.

[The Valkyrie]

Because if anyone gets to decide what is and isn't marriage, it's you, right?

In Arkansas it was one judge who got to decide what is and isn't marriage.

It should be the people who decide....not one person.

But that one person did so with the support of established laws.

Should the majority be allowed to decide all things? We have laws to protect the minority from the majority, too.

[Elskidor]

Do not be obtuse.

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were joking when I read your previous post. You mean you were actually serious?

---

I suspect the majority of theists agree with you. Yet, I do wonder if it is possible for the majority of theists to sway their opinion in years to come, because weather they like it or not gay marriage is only going to continue to be more and more accepted.

Time will tell if gay marriage continues to be accepted or not. Abortion at one time was pretty much accepted but new polling now indicates that a majority of Americans is turning against it.

Abortion is a completely different subject, and people have learned more on the subject than they use to. Even in aboortion it is not so black and white. I'm pro-choice to an extent, but not so much in late term without a good reason.

Gay marriage hurts nobody. They have as much right as anyone else to marry and they shall. There is no way the majority is suddenly going to start to shift and opposing gay marriage when every year the numbers only rise in their favor.

The two aren't even related, but you won't have to worry about abortions with a gay couple.

[kılıç_mehmet]

They actually struck down Marriage itself, yet know not what they do.
Poor dumb bastards.

Nonsense.

How does two men or two women who love each other and getting married invalidate anyone's straight marriage?

Does two unmarried women or two unmarried men having sex invalidate your own sexual experiences?

They do not meet the proper criteria to be married, meaning. The concept of marriage aims to create families, families that fit the description of the traditions associated with marriage.
But since the liberal and rootless cosmopolitan mentality tries to tear down everything related to traditional social norms and institutions, they try to re-define what marriage actually tries to accomplish.
Another thing is to normalize homosexuality by giving it what it never had before, legitimacy.

Because if anyone gets to decide what is and isn't marriage, it's you, right? Rolleyes

Well, as it seems, no. I think hat today, only the people who have no stake in marriage are the ones who get to define what marriage and what its not.

Yeah, let's take marriage back to its roots, since traditions should never change: it should still be an exchange of property between a woman's father and a man she's never met who's looking for an addition to his harem of slaves and multiple wives!

After all, redefining social institutions is for libruls!

Traditions are changed via majority consensus. The way I see it, the minority forces its ways upon the majority consensus.

And if anyone gets to define normal, it's you, isn't it? Rolleyes

Well, I'd say that heterosexual relationships are what is considered normal, and anything else is considered abnormal. I think that there is a consensus to that in any part of the world you visit.
And in any part of the world, marriage is defined by the standards of normal people, by that, heterosexuals who have at least some use for marriage.

Besides, the polls are clearly turning toward acceptance of LGBT folks. We'll see how long you keep squawking about how important the majority is once it actually sinks into you right wing bigot's thick heads that you're no longer in it.

Acceptance is one thing, redefining society according to them is another thing.
Besides, for that to happen, like me being part of the minority in this regard, I'd say that you'd need to brainwash at least 5 more generations with your pro-gay bullshit.

Striking down marriage would be not recognizing any marriage.

Well, I don't think that they do actually recognize marriage either. They have already attacked everything that made marriage important, they glorify extramarital relationships, they glorify individualism and abortions, and they disattach marriage from its traditional connection with child-bearing and child raising.
What else remains? Now they wish to include *them* as though as they had always been part of it.
When anyone thinks of marriage no one thinks of two guys in suits or two girls in wedding gowns, and this actually makes them cringe, the fact that they will never be part of contemporary society. So they viciously attack every social institution that was traditionally not open to their kind.

And when anyone says otherwise, they simply call them bigots, fascists and etc.
Nice.

And in addition to this, this neo-liberal bullshit is slowly backfiring, and reaction is on the rise, especially in Europe. I wonder what you're gonna do when it hits the US aswell.

[FlyingNarwhal]

Mehmet you said that traditions change via majority consensus. Therefore if the majority (straight people I assume) decide that gay marriage is fine with them, then by your standards is gay marriage acceptable?

Just curious.

[The Valkyrie]

---

Nonsense.

How does two men or two women who love each other and getting married invalidate anyone's straight marriage?

Does two unmarried women or two unmarried men having sex invalidate your own sexual experiences?

They do not meet the proper criteria to be married, meaning. The concept of marriage aims to create families, families that fit the description of the traditions associated with marriage.
But since the liberal and rootless cosmopolitan mentality tries to tear down everything related to traditional social norms and institutions, they try to re-define what marriage actually tries to accomplish.
Another thing is to normalize homosexuality by giving it what it never had before, legitimacy.

Because if anyone gets to decide what is and isn't marriage, it's you, right? Rolleyes

Well, as it seems, no. I think hat today, only the people who have no stake in marriage are the ones who get to define what marriage and what its not.

Yeah, let's take marriage back to its roots, since traditions should never change: it should still be an exchange of property between a woman's father and a man she's never met who's looking for an addition to his harem of slaves and multiple wives!

After all, redefining social institutions is for libruls!

Traditions are changed via majority consensus. The way I see it, the minority forces its ways upon the majority consensus.

And if anyone gets to define normal, it's you, isn't it? Rolleyes

Well, I'd say that heterosexual relationships are what is considered normal, and anything else is considered abnormal. I think that there is a consensus to that in any part of the world you visit.
And in any part of the world, marriage is defined by the standards of normal people, by that, heterosexuals who have at least some use for marriage.

Besides, the polls are clearly turning toward acceptance of LGBT folks. We'll see how long you keep squawking about how important the majority is once it actually sinks into you right wing bigot's thick heads that you're no longer in it.

Acceptance is one thing, redefining society according to them is another thing.
Besides, for that to happen, like me being part of the minority in this regard, I'd say that you'd need to brainwash at least 5 more generations with your pro-gay bullshit.

Striking down marriage would be not recognizing any marriage.

Well, I don't think that they do actually recognize marriage either. They have already attacked everything that made marriage important, they glorify extramarital relationships, they glorify individualism and abortions, and they disattach marriage from its traditional connection with child-bearing and child raising.
What else remains? Now they wish to include *them* as though as they had always been part of it.
When anyone thinks of marriage no one thinks of two guys in suits or two girls in wedding gowns, and this actually makes them cringe, the fact that they will never be part of contemporary society. So they viciously attack every social institution that was traditionally not open to their kind.

And when anyone says otherwise, they simply call them bigots, fascists and etc.
Nice.

And in addition to this, this neo-liberal bullshit is slowly backfiring, and reaction is on the rise, especially in Europe. I wonder what you're gonna do when it hits the US aswell.

---

Throughout human history there have been many forms of "traditional marriage"

Who's to say today's norms aren't in need of changing just as many of the other 'norms" have been changed through humanity evolving.