Faith is a measure of irrationality

[The Grand Nudger]

You keep blaming God for things in OUR power to fix!

It's in my power to fix my neighbors sink - that doesn't mean that my neighbor isn't responsible for his sink, does it? If his sink gets clogged up, and he does nothing about it...are you going to bitch at me for sating that he probably ought to take care of his own sink...are you going to tell me that I have some sort of responsibility to fix it for him...just because I might know how?

Also, life in this world is an eye blink compared to eternity.

-so it's alright that those fuckers suffer horribly.... :washes hands:

The great equalizer is death. No one escapes it. Does it really matter when, where or how or who? No. what matters is that "it will" happen. Whether its a straving baby, or a mother with cancer, or the guy who got run over by a speeding bus today! "Why did God make that bus speed?!!" Why restrict yourself to "babies dying"?! We're all fucked! Right? Or are babies for added emphasis?

So your death can be a doorway, or a hole in the ground. Jesus showed us the way out of our misery, and demise. But we get too caught up in our selfishness and anger.

He owes us NOTHING! Get that through your thick heads. NOTHING!

-My god cursed us all to die so it's all a wash, it's all even.

We owe Him our lives. And one day we will have to account for that gift! I want others to account for the gift of life I received. Beacuse it isn't about ME! Its about US!

If we have anything to account for......then I fail to see why "he" can't be accountable for anything.

You want to ask Him why babies die? He will tell you He put YOU here to help them! That you watched and didn't lift a finger! And that all you did was complained rather than do something... anything to help them! But ultimately they are safe with Him now... or will be.

...he put the babies there too. I'm not supposed to worry about this though, because he let them into heaven with him as a consolation prize for being a runner-up in the game of life? All of this is starting to make god sound like the worst kind of motherfucker imaginable.

We have it in our collective world power to wipe out hunger, diesease and sorrow in this world. But we as a human race would rather: fight, accumulate wealth, and blame others and God for our own ignorance!

Right here, you and I agree on absolutely every single point. I think it's as sad and absurd as you do. I have a solution though. We simply remove religion. If no one believes in god - no one can blame him for anything. We'll be fixing our own problems and not hurting gods feelings at the same time. It's perfect!

[Bad Wolf]

He owes us NOTHING! Get that through your thick heads. NOTHING!

If he owes us nothing, then why did he save your mother from dying from a heart attack?

[Undeceived]

Certainly we do not know for sure if life exists elsewhere in the universe, but considering all the atoms that came from the big bang are everywhere it should not shock us at all. Not to mention like you said, the sheer size would make it a likelihood.

May I call that faith? Can faith be defined as “believing what is likely, but not confirmed” or am I taking too much liberty?

Yeah, you're free to call that faith, so long as you understand the key distinction between this sort of faith and the faith that Christians and other religious often defend and justify.

By the way, I think it's pretty much been confirmed in many ways and yet to be falsified. Which is why we say it is likely as well. I don't think we could ever say, for most cases at least, that something's been absolutely 100% confirmed to be true.

Confirmed based on what? Based on the presupposition that, given enough time and enough space, life will spontaneously arise?

[The Grand Nudger]

-given that it did.

[Jenny A]

The great equalizer is death. No one escapes it. Does it really matter when, where or how or who?

Yes it matters. It matters very much. We should try to see that as many people as possible have the opportunity to live long happy lives. And if belief in god causes you to think otherwise, then your belief has some very ugly consequences.

So your death can be a doorway, or a hole in the ground. Jesus showed us the way out of our misery, and demise. But we get too caught up in our selfishness and anger.

Unfortunately not. Death is the end. There is no god or Jesus or Flying Spagetti Monster waiting in the wings. When we die we die. -

Jesus of the Bible promises that if you do certain things (including belief in god) that you well go to heaven and not die. But there is nothing to show that he's right anymore than the Egyptions who followed The Book of the Dead and embalmed their bodies to escape death.

He owes us NOTHING! Get that through your thick heads. NOTHING!

We owe Him our lives. And one day we will have to account for that gift! I want others to account for the gift of life I received. Beacuse it isn't about ME! Its about US!

Again there is no god.

But just supposing that there were and that it is the god you are supposing. What you are saying is:

1) God created your life and gave that life the inevitability of death.
2) Because he created you, you owe god everything.
3) If you worship god, he'll cure you of death.
4) Although god requires your worship he will not provide proof of his own existence.
3) Nevertheless, if you don't believe in him he'll send you to hell.

What kind of god would behave in such a childish way?

You want to ask Him why babies die? He will tell you He put YOU here to help them! That you watched and didn't lift a finger! And that all you did was complained rather than do something... anything to help them! But ultimately they are safe with Him now... or will be.

We have it in our collective world power to wipe out hunger, disease and sorrow in this world. But we as a human race would rather: fight, accumulate wealth, and blame others and God for our own ignorance!

Whether we can solve poverty and disease is beside the point. Children were dieing of poverty and disease long before humans had the ability to do much of anything about it. The question is, if as you say, god answers prayers, why is he so deaf to the prayers of people starving in third world countries?

I think the answer is really very simple. He doesn't answer prayers because he does not exist.

[GrandizerII]

You keep blaming God for things in OUR power to fix!

No atheist here does that if they don't believe in God. What, I think, we're all trying to point out to you is that, since you believe in God, why are you quick to blame mankind for suffering but not God?

Also, life in this world is an eye blink compared to eternity.

Obviously. Which is why I try to make the most out of the life I have now. Since after I die, I will very likely cease to exist for eternity.

Look at Jesus... Why was He able to do things others were not able to do?

What did he do exactly that others were not able to do?

Because of His Faith. He said: "It is not I, but my Father that works through me."

According to the Gospel of John. But I really doubt Jesus ever said that in reality.

And through it all, He still had to DIE!

So? We all have to die, whether we do "good" or "bad".

The great equalizer is death. No one escapes it. Does it really matter when, where or how or who? No. what matters is that "it will" happen. Whether its a straving baby, or a mother with cancer, or the guy who got run over by a speeding bus today! "Why did God make that bus speed?!!" Why restrict yourself to "babies dying"?! We're all fucked! Right? Or are babies for added emphasis?

Assuming God exists (I don't believe he does), then what's the point of death and suffering anyway?

So your death can be a doorway, or a hole in the ground. Jesus showed us the way out of our misery, and demise. But we get too caught up in our selfishness and anger.

Well, Jesus did not do that for me. And I'm not angry. Selfish ... probably.

He owes us NOTHING! Get that through your thick heads. NOTHING!

Ok, but I already accept that because I don't believe God exists.

We owe Him our lives. And one day we will have to account for that gift! I want others to account for the gift of life I received.

Again, assuming he exists, I don't owe him anything as far as I'm concerned. Why is it ok to believe he doesn't owe us but we owe him? For what anyway? A life of suffering? I didn't ask for that.

You want to ask Him why babies die? He will tell you He put YOU here to help them! That you watched and didn't lift a finger! And that all you did was complained rather than do something... anything to help them! But ultimately they are safe with Him now... or will be.

So that makes things better since they end up in heaven anyway? Why let them suffer in the first place? I can't understand how a supposedly loving father could let his infant children be unnecessarily harmed in any way by others. Why would an almighty being like God not do the same?

I'm not saying this out of rage against some god I don't believe in. I just want you to understand why this is nonsense what you're spouting.

We have it in our collective world power to wipe out hunger, diesease and sorrow in this world. But we as a human race would rather: fight, accumulate wealth, and blame others and God for our own ignorance!

You omitted natural disasters. And no, we don't really have what it takes to stop misery and pain and diseases. But if God exists, then he should be able to do so himself.

[ronedee]

He owes us NOTHING! Get that through your thick heads. NOTHING!

If he owes us nothing, then why did he save your mother from dying from a heart attack?

You don't even know what my prayer was! What I said to God! And it wasn't about "saving" my mother. That was the added benefit to my resolve!

And my mom died 2 years later, anyway! But it was the best 2 years of our relationship! We got a lot of things talked about, and figured out! I do miss her.

What that incident was, was a moment of Faith. I have enough Faith in God, that I know He will do what is necessary.

I don't know the exact reasons "why" for anything. But I know the reason "what".

I know "what" happens when I trust God. And I know what happens when men are involved.

I pray for those "babies" and a lot of other things too! But I also know that I, alone, have no control over anything in this world! The reason those babies are dying is man-made! Not God!

So, is God ignoring the babies? Or is He ignoring what man has done to make them that way?

What "IF" God did indeed come down from Heaven and helped those dying babies? And ONLY the dying babies. What would happen?

How would men "use" that to their advantage? How would they scheme to steal the power for themselves. You know, and I know that "some"... a lot of people would actually put children in harms way to test God!

Its human nature! that's why its set up this way. No one wins but God. No one. We are either on His team... or the alternative! Simple.

[Tonus]

Its human nature! that's why its set up this way. No one wins but God. No one. We are either on His team... or the alternative! Simple.

But you believe that humans are made in god's image. So what we are reflecting is his nature, isn't it?

[The Grand Nudger]

I pray for those "babies" and a lot of other things too! But I also know that I, alone, have no control over anything in this world! The reason those babies are dying is man-made! Not God!

Bzzzt, wrong. From the shoes up. The reason that they are dying is that the distribution of resources is unfair, and we are a highly competitive species. We didn't "make ourselves this way". We did not "make the world this way".

The reason that they -continue to die-..now that we could solve this problem...is man-made, insomuch as, if you are to be believed...we have failed to address your gods design flaws. His shortcomings. We haven't properly shored up the points where your god did less than you would...as a human being...with so much more means and ability to do so.

[GrandizerII]

Confirmed based on what? Based on the presupposition that, given enough time and enough space, life will spontaneously arise?

Yeah, it can be scientifically explained how life came to be, so long as you understand that life is not that magical property that some divine installed on us and then switched to "on". Life is actually more of a gradual process rather than something discrete.