Religion and children

[Elskidor]

It is wrong and evil and we should treat this type of abuse as crime, for that is exactly what it is. Psychological Rape! Simple as that.

[Crossless2.0]

@Willow Blackbird: I wouldn't push too hard if I were you, especially with the middle child. Sixteen is a difficult enough age without feeling that one's parents are going out of their way to overturn the kid's worldview. I think the Unitarian church is a good compromise for the two of you for now, and it may help to provide a sense of community your child may be missing from the fundamentalist church. Beyond that, just let your kids see that you are the same person they've always known and that the only difference is that you shed something you decided was wrong and harmful.

You might consider buying some books to explore what freethinkers have to say on the subject of religion -- not to foist on the kids but to have around in case they get curious. You might also want to stock up on popular works on science. Fundamentalist churches are notorious for twisting science to suit their agendas, as you'll see here when fundies try to argue about evolution or cosmology. Once your kids begin to figure out that their pastors and others have been lying to them about that, they might start to wonder what else they lied about. I would also encourage the kids to read the Bible. It's not a foolproof method, and many people will only have their beliefs reinforced by the experience, but many an atheist got that way by actually reading the damned thing as opposed to uncritically accepting what other have told them about it.

Above all, don't despair about this. They are all young and have many years to explore and to think for themselves. Welcome to the dark side.

[Chad32]

Luckily I didn't worry too much about hell when I was growing up christian. I just figured I was saved because I said the prayer, got baptized, and went to church every week. No one really tried to scare me with fire, brimstone, and the fear of god, though we did believe hell existed.

Jesus did have some specific things to say about family and christianity, and it isn't very pleasant. He knew it would break families apart, and was not sorry about it one bit. Love thy neighbor, but hate thyself and thy family.

[Ravenshire]

Fundamentalism isn't what's being discussed here. Just everyday christer bullshit that just happens to be harmful.

Nonsense

Christer bullshit.

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Hello, I was pointed in this thread's direction in order to post my newbie question. I am new to this forum and I hope cross-posting, in a way, is ok.
*****
I've been a confirmed atheist for about 6 months now, left the church a year ago, but really been on this road my whole life. I was raised in an evangelical Christian home by a minister. Always was taught that going to church was the way to avoid hell. Fear of hell has kept me going to church into adulthood and ultimately to raise my children in the church too. I have 3 kids - 18, 16, and 13. Recently we just left a fundamentalist Christian church after 5 years of indoctrination and abuse. Going to that church just pounded the last nail in the coffin of my faith. Upon leaving that church, I formally shut God out of my life for good and became true to myself.

It's been a rough transition for my kids. They've been raised to believe in God. They don't understand why I can turn my back on it. My two oldest children are really, really struggling. My oldest is an adult and as far as I'm concerned, he's on his own path in life. However, he's decided to start attending a church-type group for college kids. My middle child is frustrated, angry, and missing church. I have not forced my unbelief on my kids in any way, but I've challenged their thinking. When they say religious things, I ask them gently why they believe that and where it comes from. I ask them to think about whether there is evidence for such belief. It makes her very mad when I do this. So I've gone silent. She's 16 and confused. I recently agreed to attend a Unitarian Universalist church in my area with her. I have tremendous anxiety about stepping foot in a church of any kind, but she's searching and this seems to be a good compromise in a way. My youngest has embraced agnosticism and says she firmly believes in fairies. She's my little free-spirit and I love that about her.

So I guess, my question is: What do I do about my kids who keep holding SO TIGHTLY to their Judeo-Christian upbringing and refuse to even open their minds to other thoughts and ideas? Their indoctrination from the fundamentalist church is hanging on for dear life. At times it makes me a bit weepy to know I've done this to them by taking them to church. Should I just let it go? Just accept that they are all on unique paths and only answer questions when they ask me? I don't want to alienate my children.

I'd love some genuine and *KIND* advice about what to do here. My kids are good kids. They are smart. But I've confused them in a major way and I'd like to help repair it.

Willow

Wow. Teenagers. I've got two of those. Can't live with 'em, law won't let you shoot 'em.

Seriously though, it's a rough time for any parent so don't beat yourself up. I would continue to urge them to think critically about everything, not just religious beliefs. Let them go to church if that's really what they want to do. Forcing your decision on them will be met with resistance and anger. But, don't let the indoctrination go unchallenged. If either of my kids showed a real desire to go to church, I'd take them, talk to them about the sermon, show them where the minister/priest/pastor/shaman/medicine man got the day's message and show the biblical contradictions to it. If they think your guiding and helping instead of ordering they'll be more receptive.

Leaving your faith is hard. Raising kids is hard. Doing both at the same time must be hell.

Just my tuppence.

[The Grand Nudger]

We start em young, telling them about a big red omniscient fairy that happens to be a present toting moral busybody. I've always thought that the worst thing you could catch at a church (child or otherwise) is a communicable disease. Anything else we're likely to have brought -into- the church with us.

Sounds to me like your children have left the point at which a firm totalitarian hands application might do some good. They have thoughts, lol. Gonna have to let em work it out for themselves now, eh? But my opinion is meh, none of my kids have reached that point. I'm hoping that I'll be the worst example of bigotry and intolerance imaginable, burning their little crucifix and wiping my ass with the Holy Babble......but I'll probably disappoint myself and gently allow them to explore their own opinions on the matter.

[CindysRain]

Willow - Hello!

I already knew the atheists would agree, and hoped they wouldn't be too harsh with me. "Most" all of your comments have been so understanding, thank you SO much. It was a really, really hard post to make.

Willow - I feel that your doing all the right things. Just keep that all-important line of communication open, even when it's uncomfortable for you - I know it was for me at times.

Deconversion is a long and hard process. I swear I went through all the stages of grief, and then some. Just like it took us time, to see the truth, we have to expect it will, for certain, effect each of our kids differently.

Remember this, even if your kids don't want options right now, they still have them, and as they go through their own process, I think they will eventually appreciate that.

When the guilt sneaks in Willow (it will come and go), never forget that we did the best we could, with what we knew, at the time.

[Ravenshire]

I already knew the atheists would agree, and hoped they wouldn't be too harsh with me.

I hope you don't think my first post was any kind of criticism. I certainly didn't intend it that way. Mostly I just got rambling.

You did what you thought was right, as best as you know how. That's all any of us can do. The only sight that's perfect is hind-sight. I wish I had a nickle for every time I realized I'd screwed something up.

[Tonus]

Another big issue for my kids, was when one of their grandmas died, who was an outspoken atheist. Not only are they devastated at the loss of grandma, but now they are facing the images of her burning in hell. Sadly, at the time, I was still very much a christian, and struggled in what to say to comfort them.

I'm glad that the JWs do not believe in a fiery hell or eternal torment; for them, death is just eternal sleep with no afterlife for those who don't earn god's favor. So I never had to deal with the terrors of something like eternal torture at the hands of Satan and demons. I think that something that grown-ups may not realize is that children can vividly imagine such things and aren't always good at compartmentalizing or finding ways of reaching an accommodation with them. With such a short life and few experiences, anything can make a deep and troubling (and lasting) impression.

On the other hand, the JWs do practice shunning, which can be just as traumatic for adults as it can be for children. Such awful practices are carried out with the belief that it is being done in the best interests of all involved, which ensures that everyone will suffer as much as possible for as long as possible. People are sometimes willing to do truly terrifying things to one another if they believe they're doing it for your own good. That might be the most terrible way in which religion hurts people.

[CindysRain]

I hope you don't think my first post was any kind of criticism. I certainly didn't intend it that way. Mostly I just got rambling.

No, your post didn't make me feel criticized at all.

I so get the rambling thing. I've done that a few times myself, and I saw you were going in that direction.

[Dystopia]

Personally I was baptized as a baby but never had official religious education. My mother was, and still is a Christian Catholic (even though she heavily dislikes the church and other religious organizations), but since she never liked priests she never found any need in giving me such education. She taught me the basic principles of Christianity, mainly regarding love, sympathy, humanism and helping your neighbor, pretty much the nice part. I must say this didn't impact me negatively, even though as a kid I always believed in god (the Christian god) I was never indoctrinated in a way to compromise my rationality, judgement or critical thinking. Since age 14, I've been an atheist. In my particular case, my religious education given by my mother was very simple and she never threatened me with the 'you'll go to hell' phrase, she just told me to have faith, and that if I didn't have it god wouldn't be angry at me and would still love me. I do however agree with your post when you say that religion impacts a child negatively, and I think such actions should be controlled. It's not like I think teaching religion to kids should be illegal, I'm a law student and I understand the importance of religious freedom and freedom to educate your kids as you see fit. However, just like teaching your kids neo-nazism or fascism is illegal (in my country it is), teaching your kids the hateful part that compromises your judgement should be banned, even though it's almost impossible to implement such measure. I hope I helped