Where are the Morals?

[Whateverist]

Personally I'm not looking to define a code or law for myself. We already have the law of the land for guidance. Why should I look for yet another barrier to my ability to act spontaneously and with empathy in the world?

I'll leave that to the OCD driven among us like yourself, Harris. Personally, I've managed to win my trust. I don't need a set of operation instructions for getting through my day. I always thought that was sort of the point of being alive.

I am with Genkaus.

“The law of the land governs only our public life and that to a limited extent. It is not sufficient as a guide for the whole life.”

I think we envision and value the spontaneously lived life very differently. As someone who regularly gives free reign to living in animal mode, I can tell you that what you would call moral considerations are accounted for quite adequately without any ponderous attempts at systematizing oughts and nots. When you are not removed from the immediacy of living by focussing on how the features of the moment sort into the categories of your moral system, you actually notice a good deal more.

Among the things you might notice when you are focussed on the world instead of the categories in your head, are other people. Mirror neurons* allow you not only to infer peoples intentions but also the emotional basis of their motivation. Not flawlessly of course, but we are wired this way. So just focussing on the world as it comes to meet you will naturally lead to empathy. Then, assuming we have been adequately socialized, our pro-social disposition will lead us to take appropriate actions.

Moral living need not involve obsessive amounts of abstract deduction away from the world. In fact, I'd trust someone who is more tuned into their surroundings and what other people are feeling to do the right thing than I would someone who lives most of their lives in their head planning for what they'll do when they actually go out into the world. Ted Kaczinski was a man who spent enormous mental energy thinking about what was right and wrong with the world, but I want no part of his moral decisions.

*[quote wiki]

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A mirror neuron is a neuron that fires both when an animal acts and when the animal observes the same action performed by another.[1][2][3] Thus, the neuron "mirrors" the behavior of the other, as though the observer were itself acting. Such neurons have been directly observed in primate species.[4] Birds have been shown to have imitative resonance behaviors and neurological evidence suggests the presence of some form of mirroring system.[4][5] In humans, brain activity consistent with that of mirror neurons has been found in the premotor cortex, the supplementary motor area, the primary somatosensory cortex and the inferior parietal cortex.[6]

The function of the mirror system is a subject of much speculation. Many researchers in cognitive neuroscience and cognitive psychology consider that this system provides the physiological mechanism for the perception/action coupling (see the common coding theory).[3] They argue that mirror neurons may be important for understanding the actions of other people, and for learning new skills by imitation. Some researchers also speculate that mirror systems may simulate observed actions, and thus contribute to theory of mind skills,[7][8] while others relate mirror neurons to language abilities.[9] Neuroscientists such as Marco Iacoboni (UCLA) have argued that mirror neuron systems in the human brain help us understand the actions and intentions of other people. In a study published in March 2005 Iacoboni and his colleagues reported that mirror neurons could discern if another person who was picking up a cup of tea planned to drink from it or clear it from the table.[10] In addition, Iacoboni has argued that mirror neurons are the neural basis of the human capacity for emotions such as empathy.

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[quote]

[Jacob(smooth)]

Is not incest or to torcher a baby reckon as absolute immoral? If so then from where that sense of absoluteness comes from?

I think so. As a Christian however, you should be fine with them. Both of those things appear to be fine by Yahweh. He's fine with can marrying his sister, lot banging his daughters, Abraham marrying his niece etc. And the bible tells us that Yahweh used to be a bloodthirsty c**t who told his followers to rip babies out of mothers and dash them against rocks.

So those are really quite bad examples

[paulpablo]

So what kind of punishment you prefer for someone if he has sexual relations with your wife? How will you treat your wife if you learn she is in sexual affairs with another man behind your back? What are your suggestions to stop sexual abuses in a society?

I hope I am not upsetting you by giving such intimidating questions!

I don't have a wife so I don't know how to answer the question, I'd say that for people who are married and have affairs there's no solution in anyone facing violent punishment for having an affair.
I definitely think that throwing rocks at someone until they die as a punishment for anything sexual between to consenting adults is a bad idea.

I don't have any suggestions on how to stop sexual abuses in society.

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You love to twist and distort, quote out of context, and misquote simply to build up a false impression. I preserve my response until my new post in which I am planning to discuss on the tricks and tactics of selfish beings.

My only comment for now is I 100% favour all those punishments that you have presented as barbaric by concealing some real facts.

I do not think that your love and compassion for your wife will increase drastically if (God forbid) you learn that she is sharing bed with your friends.

No, I haven't presented them as being barbaric, I've presented them as they are in the quran and how they are implemented in sharia law, amputation of thieves hands, men beating women if they fear rebellion from a wife, 100 lashes for people who have sex outside the laws of islam.

[Endo]

Yeah, incest isn't exactly a moral absolute, either.

First off, look Adam and Eve's offspring. They probably did some incestey things in order to get the human race to exist. But, you'll probably pull some shit out of your ass and say that they were more genetically pure than people today or something completely stupid. Assuming, of course, that you take the A&E creation story as the story of creation.

Then there's ALL THE OTHER TIMES God told someone to fuck a family member. I'll let you find those for yourself.

So, by your own religion-based "morals", even your ABSOLUTES aren't so ABSOLUTE.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Funny how the concept and feelings of empathy are not explored in the OP.

Because the OP has neither.

[LostLocke]

Let us do a simple math:

Case one:
If you mean that atheist prisoners are only 1% of total prison population than according to above mentioned statistics:

Atheist = 2.01% of the total world population

Total world population = 7 billion

2.01% Atheist population = 140,700,000

1% atheist prisoners of total world population = 70,000,000

Above calculation shows, 50.2% atheists of total atheist population are spending their lives in prisons.

That "math" is so backasswards it's not even funny.

If you want to "do a simple math" here's how you do it:

Take the total prison population.
Multiply that by 1%.
There's the atheist inmate population.

Jesus H Christ, did you get past 3rd grade math class?

[FatAndFaithless]

Let us do a simple math:

Case one:
If you mean that atheist prisoners are only 1% of total prison population than according to above mentioned statistics:

Atheist = 2.01% of the total world population

Total world population = 7 billion

2.01% Atheist population = 140,700,000

1% atheist prisoners of total world population = 70,000,000

Above calculation shows, 50.2% atheists of total atheist population are spending their lives in prisons.

That "math" is so backasswards it's not even funny.

If you want to "do a simple math" here's how you do it:

Take the total prison population.
Multiply that by 1%.
There's the atheist inmate population.

Jesus H Christ, did you get past 3rd grade math class?

No..I didn't... Don't rub it in..

[Tonus]

Is not incest or to torcher a baby reckon as absolute immoral?

See if you can get your money refunded for that ESL class.

[LostLocke]

No..I didn't... Don't rub it in..

Too late.
I'm going to rub it in.
I'm going to rub it till it's sore and tender....

Wait, this is going in a direction I never intended...

[Whateverist]

Islam is a religion based on logic. Therefore, all its laws are logical.

.

Wait, not done.



Go on. Tell another one.

You have no idea how much soil I had to shift to extricate this one gem.

To paraphrase Harris: since Islam aspires to be a religion of logic, it therefore follows that all of its attempts succeed.