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RE: Challenge For Theists
February 9, 2015 at 11:45 pm
(This post was last modified: February 9, 2015 at 11:47 pm by Nope.)
But your answer could be used to prove any god, Drich. Do you think that people in other religions don't believe that they 'feel' their deities presence also? They ask and believe that their god/goddess answers too. A Hindu feels just as strongly as you do that their deities also show up when asked.
https://www.himalayanacademy.com/readlea...f-hinduism
" Quote:In reality, the Mahadevas are individual soul beings, and down through the ages ordinary men and women, great saints and sages, prophets and mystics in all cultures have inwardly seen, heard, and been profoundly influenced by these superconscious inner plane beings. Lord Ganesha is such a being. He can think just as we can think. He can see and understand and make decisions - so vast in their implications and complexity that we could never comprehend them with our human faculties and understanding."
and
Quote:As he approaches the sanctum sanctorum, the Hindu is fully aware that an intelligent being, greater and more evolved than himself, is there. This God is intently aware of him, safeguarding him, fully knowing his inmost thought, fully capable of coping with any situation the devotee may mentally lay at his Holy Feet. It is important that we approach the Deity in this way - conscious and confident that our needs are known in the inner spiritual worlds.
A Hindu has the same strong beliefs that you do for their god. Do you honestly think that Christian faith and how they feel about god isn't also shared by followers of other faiths in relationship for their supreme beings?
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RE: Challenge For Theists
February 10, 2015 at 9:02 am
(This post was last modified: February 10, 2015 at 9:08 am by Drich.)
(February 9, 2015 at 11:44 pm)Norman Humann Wrote: (February 9, 2015 at 11:26 pm)Nope Wrote: Have I told you lately that I love you Norman Humann?
No 
(February 9, 2015 at 11:40 pm)Drich Wrote: How can Inexistence and existence coexist?
Whoever said that they did? I just followed your logic.
Actually your not.
Your committing a formal fallacy:
Affirming the consequent – the antecedent in an indicative conditional is claimed to be true because the consequent is true; if A, then B; B, therefore A.[8]
(February 9, 2015 at 11:45 pm)Nope Wrote: But your answer could be used to prove any god, Drich. Do you think that people in other religions don't believe that they 'feel' their deities presence also? They ask and believe that their god/goddess answers too. A Hindu feels just as strongly as you do that their deities also show up when asked.
https://www.himalayanacademy.com/readlea...f-hinduism
"Quote:In reality, the Mahadevas are individual soul beings, and down through the ages ordinary men and women, great saints and sages, prophets and mystics in all cultures have inwardly seen, heard, and been profoundly influenced by these superconscious inner plane beings. Lord Ganesha is such a being. He can think just as we can think. He can see and understand and make decisions - so vast in their implications and complexity that we could never comprehend them with our human faculties and understanding."
and
Quote:As he approaches the sanctum sanctorum, the Hindu is fully aware that an intelligent being, greater and more evolved than himself, is there. This God is intently aware of him, safeguarding him, fully knowing his inmost thought, fully capable of coping with any situation the devotee may mentally lay at his Holy Feet. It is important that we approach the Deity in this way - conscious and confident that our needs are known in the inner spiritual worlds.
A Hindu has the same strong beliefs that you do for their god. Do you honestly think that Christian faith and how they feel about god isn't also shared by followers of other faiths in relationship for their supreme beings?
Who said anything about feelings?
I said proof of God lies with in God. If you seek God as He is instructs at some point in your existence you will indeed see Him.
I do not deny that Other religions have something fueling them. Religious People are not as stupid as most atheist say they are. If their was nothing behind a religious belief then that belief would die. That said, not all beliefs are correct. Many were created to mislead and to pander to what people want.
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RE: Challenge For Theists
February 10, 2015 at 9:27 am
(This post was last modified: February 10, 2015 at 9:27 am by Norman Humann.)
(February 10, 2015 at 9:02 am)Drich Wrote: (February 9, 2015 at 11:44 pm)Norman Humann Wrote: Whoever said that they did? I just followed your logic.
Actually your not.
Your committing a formal fallacy:
Affirming the consequent – the antecedent in an indicative conditional is claimed to be true because the consequent is true; if A, then B; B, therefore A.[8] I'm not? If I'm not mistaken, you said that God is the proof of his existence. So his inexistence is also the proof for itself.
Also, you're wrong and the proof is the fact that you're wrong. That's what your logic sounds like.
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RE: Challenge For Theists
February 10, 2015 at 9:31 am
(February 10, 2015 at 9:27 am)Norman Humann Wrote: (February 10, 2015 at 9:02 am)Drich Wrote: Actually your not.
Your committing a formal fallacy:
Affirming the consequent – the antecedent in an indicative conditional is claimed to be true because the consequent is true; if A, then B; B, therefore A.[8] I'm not? If I'm not mistaken, you said that God is the proof of his existence. So his inexistence is also the proof for itself.
Also, you're wrong and the proof is the fact that you're wrong. That's what your logic sounds like.
Sounds about right for Drich.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Challenge For Theists
February 10, 2015 at 9:40 am
Even if there were a plurality of gods, demi-gods, and lesser deities, there could still only be one All, or Supreme Being.
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RE: Challenge For Theists
February 10, 2015 at 9:41 am
Quote:Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen it to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
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RE: Challenge For Theists
February 10, 2015 at 9:46 am
(February 9, 2015 at 11:18 pm)Nope Wrote: If someone asked me to prove that I am the real Nope, I would show them identification forms like my birth certificate and drivers license. My husband and I have been married 26 years so he would be my character witness. I have multiple friends and family who could vouch for my being the real deal. Also, a DNA test would be the final proof.
You've got it easier than the rest of us, though. You can always ask a person "do you know who I am?" Then they respond "nope" and you have your verification!
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Challenge For Theists
February 10, 2015 at 10:06 am
(This post was last modified: February 10, 2015 at 10:40 am by Homeless Nutter.)
(February 9, 2015 at 11:40 pm)Drich Wrote: [...]
I have continually said if one seeks God as He commands He will show up. In that one has proof of God.
Or perhaps proof of mental illness. Or chemical intoxication. Or a dream. How could you ever tell the difference?
Basically, what you seem to be saying, is that the only way to obtain a proof of god is brain malfunction, or supernatural intervention. Which means this "proof" can't be shared, is useless in a rational discussion and so you may just as well keep it to yourself. Just on the off-chance, that instead of god's grace, you experienced a mental breakdown at some point and now you're simply working under false assumptions, spreading wrong "information" and interfering with any potential "real" God's actual plan. Don't worry - Jesus will get to everyone, eventually. Santa does...
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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RE: Challenge For Theists
February 10, 2015 at 10:30 am
(This post was last modified: February 10, 2015 at 10:45 am by Nope.)
(February 10, 2015 at 9:40 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Even if there were a plurality of gods, demi-gods, and lesser deities, there could still only be one All, or Supreme Being.
Although I am not certain why there would have to be one Supreme Being, your argument at least makes some sense and isn't circular. Thank you.
(February 10, 2015 at 9:02 am)Drich Wrote: I said proof of God lies with in God. If you seek God as He is instructs at some point in your existence you will indeed see Him.
I do not deny that Other religions have something fueling them. Religious People are not as stupid as most atheist say they are. If their was nothing behind a religious belief then that belief would die. That said, not all beliefs are correct. Many were created to mislead and to pander to what people want.
Hindus and other faiths also 'experience' their god. They would use the exact argument that you are using.
"If you seek Vishnu as he instructs at some point in your existence you will indeed see him."
What you are arguing works for all other faiths also. That is my point. Can you come up with an argument that only applies to your god.
As for the rest of your quote, when have I ever said that religious people are stupid? Religion serves emotional needs in some people, including you.
So, what do you think is behind the Hindu faith? There have been Hindus who have died rather than convert to Islam so they must believe their religion is correct every bit as passionately as you do.
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RE: Challenge For Theists
February 10, 2015 at 11:54 am
(February 10, 2015 at 9:02 am)Drich Wrote: I said proof of God lies with in God. If you seek God as He is instructs at some point in your existence you will indeed see Him.
So, you were asked for proof of god, and you decide to bray "the proof of god is god!" and yet you have the astounding gall to accuse someone else of committing a fallacy? 
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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