Was it necessary to create anything?

[emjay]

Was it necessary that Humans were created? Things would be so much less complicated for a deity if there was no universe or life to manage and scriptures to write/inspire, right? So, what does a deity gain from creating life (Humans)?

These are all questions that I've grappled with for some time and first one (about Humans) is one that I would want to put to Theists that approach me. Recently, I watched a video where somebody wanting to spread the lies of Abdul Waahab asked an irreligious person to compare a Human to a shoe: "Which is more complicated?", they asked. Then, obviously, this lead into: Well, Humans have a purpose.

And I thought to myself: Shoes were created because there is a need for them, as Humans traveled ever greater distances, whereas Humans were not (according to the Abrahamic religions at least). And this lead to the question: Was it necessary that Humans were created? Surely, (insert preferred deity here) can live without Humans? Why does (insert preferred deity here) want/need Humans to exist?

How do you think a believer would react if I asked the question: Was it necessary that Humans were created? If they answer yes then I will ask why and it should follow that, yes, the deity is egotistical. One might say: "My favourite deity wanted to share their creation with Humans". But that begs the question: Why make a creation in the first place? If the person answers no to the question then it still begs the question of why. And some will inevitably sit on the fence and say: "I don't know"

Also, do you think it's fair to compare shoes to Humans? I think it may not be a fair comparison because Humans have had million/billions of years of evolution whereas shoes haven't. Also, the creators of shoes are always striving to create the best shoes possible whereas Humans are stuck with this faulty design.

I would say that it's because he wanted to be loved but knew that love (or respect) only means anything if it comes from a position of free will, hence creating an independent, thinking being. But since it is 'implemented' - at least in the Old Testament - with the simultaneous promise of Heaven on one hand and the threat of Hell on the other, that suggests a very insecure being terrified of being rejected. That's one of the reasons that convinces me that the Bible is the work of petty man, not a deity.

[IATIA]

I've talked on this issue in another thread and if we reason from within the myth my best quess that God wanted to entertain himself.

"Hey, Gabriel. Check out my new VR box! Watch this flood thing, it's pretty cool!"

[dyresand]

Was it necessary that Humans were created? Things would be so much less complicated for a deity if there was no universe or life to manage and scriptures to write/inspire, right? So, what does a deity gain from creating life (Humans)?

These are all questions that I've grappled with for some time and first one (about Humans) is one that I would want to put to Theists that approach me. Recently, I watched a video where somebody wanting to spread the lies of Abdul Waahab asked an irreligious person to compare a Human to a shoe: "Which is more complicated?", they asked. Then, obviously, this lead into: Well, Humans have a purpose.

And I thought to myself: Shoes were created because there is a need for them, as Humans traveled ever greater distances, whereas Humans were not (according to the Abrahamic religions at least). And this lead to the question: Was it necessary that Humans were created? Surely, (insert preferred deity here) can live without Humans? Why does (insert preferred deity here) want/need Humans to exist?

How do you think a believer would react if I asked the question: Was it necessary that Humans were created? If they answer yes then I will ask why and it should follow that, yes, the deity is egotistical. One might say: "My favourite deity wanted to share their creation with Humans". But that begs the question: Why make a creation in the first place? If the person answers no to the question then it still begs the question of why. And some will inevitably sit on the fence and say: "I don't know"

Also, do you think it's fair to compare shoes to Humans? I think it may not be a fair comparison because Humans have had million/billions of years of evolution whereas shoes haven't. Also, the creators of shoes are always striving to create the best shoes possible whereas Humans are stuck with this faulty design.

I would say that it's because he wanted to be loved but knew that love (or respect) only means anything if it comes from a position of free will, hence creating an independent, thinking being. But since it is 'implemented' - at least in the Old Testament - with the simultaneous promise of Heaven on one hand and the threat of Hell on the other, that suggests a very insecure being terrified of being rejected. That's one of the reasons that convinces me that the Bible is the work of petty man, not a deity.

Except one thing he doesn't value human lives since he can take it so easily and he hates anyone who is different. god of the bible isn't all loving by any stretch of the imagination he only loves a specific group of people and even still he betrays them he gotten his original favorites kill off. So yeah god of the bible is petty and malicious, seeing that is how the world and everything else is. I came to a conclusion as a child if there is a god and i am wrong it is a god who simply does not give a fuck about us he doesn't care about your petty worship, He doesn't care about your prayer requests, He doesn't care at all. 

[emjay]

I would say that it's because he wanted to be loved but knew that love (or respect) only means anything if it comes from a position of free will, hence creating an independent, thinking being. But since it is 'implemented' - at least in the Old Testament - with the simultaneous promise of Heaven on one hand and the threat of Hell on the other, that suggests a very insecure being terrified of being rejected. That's one of the reasons that convinces me that the Bible is the work of petty man, not a deity.

Except one thing he doesn't value human lives since he can take it so easily and he hates anyone who is different. god of the bible isn't all loving by any stretch of the imagination he only loves a specific group of people and even still he betrays them he gotten his original favorites kill off. So yeah god of the bible is petty and malicious, seeing that is how the world and everything else is. I came to a conclusion as a child if there is a god and i am wrong it is a god who simply does not give a fuck about us he doesn't care about your petty worship, He doesn't care about your prayer requests, He doesn't care at all. 

No, you're right, he doesn't seem to value human lives. That was another thing that got to me - the fact that the many were punished for the sins of the few - a whole city here or there. And any Christian will tell you that any innocents caught in the cross-fire would automatically go to Heaven but that doesn't cut it - pain is pain even if something good comes after.

[robvalue]

Yep, it makes no sense. An omnipotent God couldn't reasonably be the slightest bit impressed or interested in something as simple as us. It would be like us getting excited about ants moving towards us.

The whole thing is utterly ridiculous. If he wants to feel loved and praised through free will of others, he could just simulate that feeling in himself whenever he wants, to whatever intensity he wants. He has no need to actually go through the motions of anything.

Of course, if you turn it around and say God is created by us in our image, it all makes perfect sense.

[John V]

If the work has just begun, why are you sure that you're going to find problems?

You seem to be admitting that you don't know what's there, and yet claiming you know it's wrong.

[dyresand]

If the work has just begun, why are you sure that you're going to find problems?

You seem to be admitting that you don't know what's there, and yet claiming you know it's wrong.

This is just me reading from the bible putting bits together. I know for 100% certainty there is no god and there never needed to be a god in 
the first place. Because a being with infinite power couldn't exist because the number infinity is a asinine number to deal with. Nothing can be infinite
the closest thing you can and it is a number written down it would look like so 10^100 10 to the power of 100. Even still the most fundamental understanding 
of the big bang, evolution, and peer reviewed scientific papers concludes the universe came about in a naturalistic way and even Hawking said there is no need for a god.  

[John V]

This is just me reading from the bible putting bits together. I know for 100% certainty there is no god and there never needed to be a god in 
the first place. Because a being with infinite power couldn't exist because the number infinity is a asinine number to deal with. Nothing can be infinite
the closest thing you can and it is a number written down it would look like so 10^100 10 to the power of 100. Even still the most fundamental understanding 
of the big bang, evolution, and peer reviewed scientific papers concludes the universe came about in a naturalistic way and even Hawking said there is no need for a god.  

I'm glad you're an atheist.

[RobertE]

Genesis 12:15 makes me chuckle:

The princes also of Pharaoh saw her, and commended her before Pharaoh: and the woman was taken into Pharaoh's house.

This was after the earth was flooded, and so, all those people were clearly either relatives of Noah. It is in this chapter that Egypt is mentioned in the bible for the first time and they speak of Princes. Surely they would have had more significance than someone like Abram and his bit on the side.

[Faith No More]

I think the only reasonable answer as to what an omnipotent, omniscient entity could want with lowly fallible beings such as humans is that he needed some pets to play with.