Stump the Christian?

[Ravenshire]

No, not really. Those things can be observed, measured and tested over and over. Evolution is an extrapolation of a tiny sliver of the observed.

Your ignorance is showing. You might want to get some education to cover it up with.

[Ravenshire]

Then why is it known as the Theory of Evolution and not the Law of Evolution?

I've never heard of the "theory of gravity"...but the Law of Gravity I know.

And now it's your ignorance on display for the whole forum.
Gravity. It's a law and a theory!

Would you like to talk about germ theory as well? Or do you thing illnesses are demon possession?!?

Do you christer ass-hats even understand how the term "theory" is used in the scientific community?

[Ravenshire]

Is it possible that science is not the proper discipline for proving that God does or does not exist?

No, it's not. Anything that acts in this world will leave measurable traces in this world whether the actor is immaterial or not. Science can (and would if any of you christers could provide any) test and verify/refute these traces. Problem (for you guys) is that no trace has ever been found.

[robvalue]

Even if the traces of supposed interaction could be found, it's (currently) impossible to find out what supernatural agent caused it, if any. It would look exactly the same whether it was your God, Jim's God or a magic crab. Or indeed nothing supernatural, and just some natural explanation we don't yet have. All we see are the natural results on our end.

But as it happens, we don't even find these supposed interactions at all. All we get are anecdotes which we are expected to believe with no evidence. And even if they did happen, the person giving the anecdote is employing the argument from ignorance or special pleading to "determine" causation.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

A correction. Evolution is a fact and the ToE is the method to which we try and explain the fact (and do a good job of it too). It's as established as magnetism and gravity, and believing it to be false with no real evidenced reason why doesn't stop it being factual.

Then why is it known as the Theory of Evolution and not the Law of Evolution?

I've never heard of the "theory of gravity"...but the Law of Gravity I know.

I'm very embarrassed for you for posting that on a discussion forum. I mean, the answer to your questions are in the post you cite, so I'm not really sure what you're asking.

I really don't know how to respond to such ignorance and misrepresentation, but I see others have made an attempt so I'll defer to them.

[Longhorn]

Words.....they change meaning in context. A fact worth remembering if you don't want to make an ass out of yourself, methinks

[Britney blue]

I use none, and I did say "creative weapons of reason and logic", Christianity in the bible seem to violate logic and morality, and I am very interested in why Christians don't understand this.

Maybe because we've read it and understood it properly? 

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A correction. Evolution is a fact and the ToE is the method to which we try and explain the fact (and do a good job of it too). It's as established as magnetism and gravity, and believing it to be false with no real evidenced reason why doesn't stop it being factual.

Then why is it known as the Theory of Evolution and not the Law of Evolution?

I've never heard of the "theory of gravity"...but the Law of Gravity I know.

---

There is something that I feel since my third year here on this forum. The idiots have no bounds defending magic and fairytales. It is indeed dismaying as they are always ready to shred any intellectual honesty just to save their vaunted belief.

Knucles in their faces won't work either, as they are so full of themselves, it would probably fuel their delusion. Bah, I live my life with fairness without god, I want people to live and let live. It is the religious anthem to proclaim theirs is the only way to live. This is why I have to keep pushing their bullshit back up their asses. If it wasn't for that, I'd have little interest in this forum.

Christians lie.
Christians are intellectually dishonest.
Christians are prideful.
Christians are deluded.

Man, it sure is refreshing to see how wonderfully developed the atheist sense of living in harmony with and caring for others really is. Gotta love that societal evolution.

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Making religion look stupid is not the aim of the theory of evolution. It just happens to be a side effect.

Like all scientific theories, it models reality. It's not science's fault if reality does not correlate to dusty old books written by people with very little understanding of the world around them. It's not surprising at all, really. We've had 2000 years of learning since then.

How so, rob?

What if God created all things and used evolution to get us to this point?

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If it affects the real world, it can be tested. If it doesn't affect the real world, it isn't your god.

Your petulant affectation that you somehow have some authority to decide what science can and cannot test is utterly meaningless.

What you actually mean is the real "material" world.

You have no way of testing the real "immaterial", do you?

"Maybe because we've read it and understood it properly?" Then your either delusional or dishonest.

[ignoramus]

Even if the traces of supposed interaction could be found, it's (currently) impossible to find out what supernatural agent caused it, if any. It would look exactly the same whether it was your God, Jim's God or a magic crab. Or indeed nothing supernatural, and just some natural explanation we don't yet have. All we see are the natural results on our end.

But as it happens, we don't even find these supposed interactions at all. All we get are anecdotes which we are expected to believe with no evidence. And even if they did happen, the person giving the anecdote is employing the argument from ignorance or special pleading to "determine" causation.

Rob, doesn't it seem perfectly natural that sciences owns the real material world, and the minute some comes along without an explanation, it must be the work of "their" god!
The thought that it might be someone else's god, we'll that's just being stupid now...

These guys are completely barking mad!

[Tonus]

How can I corner, of course with my words, Christians and make them feel they have no choice but admit to rethinking their position or part of their positions when it comes to the bible or their god?

That's pretty tricky, because the Bible is so open to interpretation. It's easy enough to simply claim you lack understanding or knowledge and thus deflect any questions you might have. After all, if it was that easy, then one of the thousands of Christian denominations would have absorbed all of the others by now.

[SteveII]

According to the Christian THEORY (since I don't need to be certain of anything to have a theory, I just need some evidence that agrees with my conclusions) God has interacted with our reality (not meant to be an exhaustive list):

1) The universe had a cause
2) Life exists
3) Complex biological systems exist
4) The ancient Jews interacted with God quite a bit
5) Jesus came, ministered, performed miracles, died, and was resurrected
6) Miracles still happen
7) There is a god-shaped hole in everyone's psychology
8) The "inter-witness of the Holy Spirit" (there, that should get all the WLC fans going)

Of course you will pick apart each one as "you can't prove..." and "baseless assertions". I don't have to prove them, just like evolution, the mountain of evidence I have points to a probabilistic conclusion that the God of Christianity exists. Until I am presented with a theory that answers all of these questions with a different answer, that is what I choose to believe.

Despite the vitriol that is sure to come, this is not an unreasonable THEORY--much like believing in evolutionary theory is not unreasonable.