Believers don't believe

[Psalm 23]

http://www.adherents.com

How exactly do those statistics distinguish between "belief" and belief in belief?

They don't, but it shows you the world's leading religions.

Yes I haven't looked into it but I've heard a lot about it. And I can imagine Christians DO give a lot to charity. But that's NOT because they believe in the supernatural.

Christians donate money and food because Jesus said give to those in need. And your reward in Heaven will be ten fold.

Morality is innate and it has been hijacked by religion. Its NOT in religion and then we steal it off religion. Because its innate in us in the first place. Believing in God doesn't make you more moral.

I believe the 10 Commandments were the moral decency laws that mankind is supposed to live by. If you stop and think about it. Every single one of those commandments are THE hardest to abide by. Even in modern times..

Furthermore there is a lot of evil that religion DOES do. If you fundamentally believe the OT or the koran for instance. And take it literally and are dogmatic about it. It can cause an otherwise good person to do some very evil things because he thinks its righteous.

Neither the Qu'ran or the Holy Bible condone killing innocent women and children. In a time of warfare, yes, it was acceptable to kill to protect your Land or Family... God did give the Jews the command to take over land occupied by pagans because Jehovah knew they were sacrificing their children in the name of their gods.

And about the 'two religions from the Middle East' dominating the globe. This is true its of course horrific. Its horrific that people go to war over what they "believe" is "God". On the other hand can you imagine anybody going to war because UNbelief in God? Can you imagine 9/11, the crusades, the inquisition, etc, happening because of an UNbelief?

I agree with you 100%!! There have been many atrocities over religious battles. I cannot speak for my ancient Christian brothers. There must have been a reason why they did what they did. Because the Jesus I know didn't command his Disciples to murder people.

Yes but the bible and the koran say a LOT of things don't they? A lot of horrific stuff, not just 'good stuff'. So you pick and choose. And yoy use your innate morality to do so. And you certainly don't need to believe in God to pick and choose what God says. Its got nothing to do with "God".

I don't pick and choose, but I also know it's not my place to judge what my ancient fellow brothers did 3,000 years ago. I cannot speak for an event that took place 30 centuries ago. I'm not God.

Finding happiness through delusion does not mean its not a delusion. Consolation is not proof of God. Popularity if not proof of God. And once again, if it makes you happy that doesn't mean its not delusional. It doesn't mean its true.

Mental patients that are delusional and insane are detected by medical examiners. Delusional patterns can be detected by science. So far, no signs of God being a mental disorder. Well, unless you read a book authored by a Biologist.

You don't know. Life did evolve. I don't know what you think that means, or how you understand evolution. But it did evolve. And if you feel sorry if we disagree with your God. Then I'm sorry that you persist in your delusion.

Evolution does not say anything about the origin of life. That is Abiogenesis.

You claim to know the mind of God. How could you know this? Its absurd. How on earth do you know that God knows you are a sinner and he also knows you were saved?

Well, because the bible says God is Omniscient. Meaning, 'He knows everything."

How could you know that? Because it says it in the bible? And the bible is the word of God? Well how on earth do you know its the word of God?

Because these ancient men claimed to receive visions from God. And they wrote down that God told them, 'All who believe in him are saved and will share everlasting paradise with the creator." Geez, sounds simple enough..Sounds like a pretty cool story, too. I think it's awesome these men were chosed to witness God so they can share it with the rest of the world.

How is the bible evidence of the truth of its own claims? It isn't, thats how. How do you know you couldn't just invent your own God, and that that wouldn't be just as likely? So how on earth do you know what God thinks?

I get this gut feeling sometimes.. I can know what God is thinking.

If you can't know that the bible is the word of God in the first place? Were you brought up to believe? Were you taught to believe?

I know the bible is the word of God. There have been just too many prophecies that have been fulfilled. I was brought up to believe in nothing. I was not raised in a Christian family. We were anything but a Christian family. I recently found God on my own around 4 years ago.

Believe me, I used to have the same exact questions you do, but I found the answers..

Well if he keeps it to himself thats fine.

But it's ok for Christians to donate food and money? When should Christians keep their faith to themself? Only when people don't need them?

But if he actually doesn't want to be delusional, and actually cares about the truth (it seems as if he doesn't because he basically says "who cares as long as I'm happy?", so he doesn't care if its not true if it makes him happy).

Yes, Bill O'Reilly pretty much told Dawkins, "Listen, Catholicism makes me a happier person, and I donate my time and money to the Church.. so if it makes me happy and I'm helping others, why in the Hell are you so concerned about that?"

But he certainly shouldn't influence anyone else with his delusional bullshit.

I'm sure he raised a few atheist eyebrows. He slapped Dawkins with the ultimate, "You cannot prove Jesus Christ wasn't God."

And there's no reason why it should make him happy apart from the fact he believes it does. That he believes such bullshit is positive.

Apparently he knows something you don't.

I somehow don't think that the God of the bible is exactly someone or something to respected!

You don't have to respect him if you don't want to. Nobody is forcing you to worship Jehovah or else! This isn't the year 600 B.C.

I'll tell you what, its the truth that makes me happy. Wasn't Jesus supposed to have said: "The truth will set you free". Well if he did, Its quite ironic really that the whole God thing is bullshit.

Yes, the Truth will set you free, (from eternal damnation) Jesus was saying "live your life while you can, because on judgement day, it's all over for you."

Yes the truth will set you free. So, as humans lets quit with this delusional supernatural bullshit IF we can, huh? Us humans don't need this bullshit.

Roughly 90% of the world believe in God, and that stat is from 2005. For some reason, I don't see human civilization giving up hope in God any time soon.

I don't see how absence of a belief in what there is no evidence of and what is extremely improbable, is a delusion? I don't see how absence of delusion is a delusion? So how are atheists delusional exactly?

Claiming something is not there when it could possibly well be there is a delusion. That is called, living in a world of denial, and nowhere near reality.

And by the way. Don't you know? We as humans are made from a lot of non-living things. Don't you believe in atoms? If you don't. Does that mean you don't believe in nuclear bombs? In atom bombs? While we're at it. Do you believe in gravity?

Gee, Do I believe in atoms? Why of course I do. Have you read the bible lately? It says, "God prepared the worlds with things that cannot be seen." What created the universe? Invisible atoms?

Science laughed and scoffed at the bible verse. They claimed, "How could invisible materials create the Universe??" lol. Who's laughing now?

Wow those Christians sure sound nice. What a lovely thing to believe in. Why believe in the apocalypse for example if its just about consolation and freedom to believe?

The end times rapture will be a glorious event for believers.

Such a thing is of course a truth claim. And its a false truth. Its both a false and delusional AND harmful belief.

The end times will be a joyous event! Hardly a harmful belief.

If Christians are right, then the world is doomed. Jesus f**king Christ. Lets hope they're not.

I don't think even Dawkins would stoop as low as to use the Lord's name in vain. Atheists lose so much credibility in debate sessions when they do that.

But I don't need to hope. Because they just aren't are they? not only is God extremely improbable but for one particular God to be right.

He is the only God. I'm not aware of other gods? Unless you're talking about people like Thor, Zeus, Odin.. those were men claiming god-like divinity. They were not gods.. they were mortal men that lived and died, and never seen again. And now these religions are nothing but mythological stories. Jehovah is the only one true supernatural God that is an eternal force that was never created, and will never die. All of these ancient gods of the past have died and gone... finished!! but Lord Jehovah's name still stand on the top of the world nearly 4,000 years later!

For one particular religion to have got his mind right. When they can't know. That's pretty much impossible.

There is only one God. Believe in the one God that promises he shall never die, and human kind shall face him one day. He made the promise.. why would you risk your afterlife to be excruciating torment and misery for eternity?

And of course the world is doomed even if the Christians are wrong. In the end the earth will be no more. It won't last forever. So if humans want to survive they're going to have to live on another planet. So far we haven't found a livable one.

There are no livable planets other than Earth. Scientists believe they have found life on other planets, and you get these idiot U.F.O fanatics that believe they are talking about aliens. lol.

For the moment. Pretty much zero. Because there's no evidence to the contrary. And God is extremely improbable.

Where did you come to that conclusion? Do you know how absurd that makes you look?

This is exactly what a universe would look like if there were no supernatural. There's no miracles, no signs of the supernatural whatsoever.

And you know this.. how? What scientist blessed you with such vast knowledge about our Universe?

God could be deist. But like I said there's no evidence and he/she/it is extremely improbable anyway.

Sorry, but the universe being created from nothing is highly improbable.

Besides, the burden of proof is on the believer. Its the believer who is postulating the absurd. It is the believer making the claims and/or proclaims about the universe. With no evidence to support them whatsoever. The burden of proof is on them.

It's been proven. Just open your eyes..

But the point is that being a "true believer" isn't about being a good person. No. Its about actually believing and taking the holy books completely literally and believing every word. And this is what fundamentalist terrorist believers believe right?

No, it's not about taking the bible literally, it's called, "people cannot translate ancient writing with modern english." For instance, I had an atheist tell me, "Jesus said we MUST HATE our parents in order to be his Disciple!" I cannot begin to explain how absurd that looks! Jesus used the word, "Sin'ah" in that verse, and Sin'ah means, "To Love lesser than." All Jesus was saying is, "we are to place God before anyone."

These people are not mistaken. They don't necessarily claim to do things "in Gods name" they very often do what God actually tells them to do in their holy book.

I haven't. Gee, maybe I'm not a true Disciple?

the bible is full of horror too. Does it not say In the OT that if your child talks back to you, you should stone them to death?

If you lived in ancient Israel, you would have followed the same laws. Don't play that card with me, it won't work. Of course human civilization has changed in the last 4,000 years. lol. Why are you comparing Apples to Oranges?

For example. There are huge amounts of horrors in the OT. And Jesus said he didn't come to change ANY of the OT. But to promote it. And Jesus after all, was a Jew.

Actually, Yes he did. When it came to war and fighting, and unjustified killings. Jesus told his people, "You have heard it in the past that you are to hate your enemies, but verily I say unto you, Love your enemies, and pray for those who curse you."

You pick and choose parts from the bible. As the less fundamentalist Muslims do. They pick and choose from the koran. Rather than believing the whole thing.

I believe every single entire word of the bible, but I also believe it was written for ancient man, and they were commanded by God to do whatever it takes to protect their land.

To act as if the bible is perfect would be bullshit. Its not got one line in it that couldn't be written by a man who lived when it was written. There is no evidence of divine guidance of any kind. And the bible is full of immorality and ignorance. And these aren't aren't always mutually exclusive. The bible isn't exactly great. And certainly not as great as a lot of you Christians and Jews make it out to be.

The Holy Bible has over 330 fulfilled prophecies to date. That is outstanding! No wonder it's the number one selling book in the history of mankind.

So you say that you accept the bible is full of a lot of filth because it was so long ago when it was written. So my question is this: If the bible is the word of God. How can you know what God wants and what doesn't? How can you know God's mind? How can you even know that God is the Christian God? What is your excuse for cherry-picking?

Define 'Cherry Picking.' Because I show verses in the bible that express Love and Compassion? And you believe that is considered "cherry picking?" What about you? I'm sure atheists are not guilty of doing that!! No way!!!

Furthermore. Do you ever reject horrific things in the bible that you actually believe in. Because they're horrific? Or do you not believe in the bible anyway and you just pick the good stuff and think faith belief=belief?

I believe everything written in the bible has a purpose. Ancient man was describing their culture. Who are YOU to judge them? They lived thousands and thousands of years ago... why are you so affected by this?

If you sincerely believe in only the good things that God says in the bible. And believe that all the bad things in the bible were misattributed to God by the writers.

I believe God commited mass-genocide in the O.T. I'm not ashamed of that. He warned people over and over, and they didn't listen.. so he took care of business, as usual.

But that still makes it delusional bullshit whether its moral or immoral.

I cannot count how many times you called me "delusional" in this post.. But I gotta warn you, flattery won't work.

[Dotard]

Christians donate money and food because Jesus said give to those in need. And your reward in Heaven will be ten fold.
Supports my contentions. If you truely believed this then you would sell everything and give it all away. Your talking a blink of an eye, eternally speaking, and ten fold rewards for eternity. If you don't give it all to the needy then you really don't believe in a reality of ten fold rewards for eternity.

Every single one of those commandments are THE hardest to abide by. Even in modern times...
Don't steal, don't kill, don't worship other Gods, don't hump the neighbors wife..... Do you really find these hard to abide by? Have you seen my neighbor's wife?! If you find these hard to abide by then you are one weak-assed puppy and should seek help from a mental health professional.


Neither the Qu'ran or the Holy Bible condone killing innocent women and children. In a time of warfare, yes, it was acceptable ....
Killing innocent women and children was acceptable?!

Because the Jesus I know didn't command his Disciples to murder people.
Was Jesus God? Were they one in the same? Thou must readith thy bible more.

I don't pick and choose, but I also know it's......
Point was one need not believe in God to yank passages out of a bible to support their positions. That in itself has nothing to do with "God". Understandable how that concept escapes you.

Mental patients that are delusional and insane are detected by medical examiners. Delusional patterns can be detected by science. So far, no signs of God being a mental disorder. Well, unless you read a book authored by a Biologist.
You really should read more. The God delusion can be scientificly measured. But since biologists discovered this I guess you auto-reject their findings huh?

Because these ancient men claimed to receive visions from God. And they wrote down that God told them.....
I am receiving a vision from God right now and I'm writing down what God is telling me here within this reply. Why do you believe? Because some anceint dudes claimed it to be so and wrote it down! Do you know how absurd that makes you look?

I get this gut feeling sometimes.. I can know what God is thinking.
God mind reader!!

Believe me, I used to have the same exact questions you do, but I found the answers...
Please share these answers with us. And please be able to support your answers with more than "I know what God is thinking.".

"You cannot prove Jesus Christ wasn't God."
And you cannot prove I am not an invisible leprechaun that lives in the internets.

Nobody is forcing you to worship Jehovah or else!
Bible says believe or you will not be in the book of life. Rev. 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Sounds like a "worship me or else!" to me.

Jesus was saying "live your life while you can, because on judgement day, it's all over for you."
Again, supports my OP. Your belief would have to have 100% complete obsessive devotion because "on judgement day, it's all over for you.".


Atheists lose so much credibility in debate sessions...
Have to agree somewhat here. When one begins to use profanity they lose a bit of credibility, to the lesser minded. The astute knows a frustration induced bit of profanity does not distract from the point being made and can sometimes emphasize the point.

He made the promise.. why would you risk your afterlife to be excruciating torment and misery for eternity?
Paschels wager.

There are no livable planets other than Earth.
Where did you come to that conclusion? Do you know how absurd that makes you look? And you know this.. how? What scientist blessed you with such vast knowledge about our Universe?

Sorry, but the universe being created from nothing is highly improbable.
That is exactly how your bible says it was created!

It's been proven. Just open your eyes...
Please share some of this proof with the class. Just keep in mind the bible is NOT proof.

"Jesus said we MUST HATE our parents in order to be his Disciple!" I cannot begin to explain how absurd that looks!

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

I haven't. Gee, maybe I'm not a true Disciple?
That would be my contention, yes.

Of course human civilization has changed in the last 4,000 years.
That tidbit does not distract from the fact that it was your God that ordered folks to stone their children. And dash them upon the rocks. And be happy to do so.

"You have heard it in the past that you are to hate your enemies, but verily I say unto you, Love your enemies,....
Jesus contradicting himself. Remember, Jesus was God.

They lived thousands and thousands of years ago... why are you so affected by this?
This is a question best asked of yourself.

I believe God commited mass-genocide in the O.T. I'm not ashamed of that.
And somehow you think this was a good thing.

[Daystar]

I'd say alot of people believe there is a god, but a very small percentage know anything about it.
They know "God will save me. Love thy neighbour. I will go to heaven. Pray. Jesus rocks. God has a plan. Sin is bad." But very few of them take the time to analyse their gods and beliefs properly. My parents being a great example of this. They just cherrypick a few facts and look no further, then check the "catholic" box on the surveys having never read the bible. I'm sort of in agreement with Dotard, not many people have thorough, concrete beliefs, just a few abstract ideas which could be torn to pieces in 5 minutes by any one of us (because they haven't thought in enough depth to defend their position).

Might be different in other countries. But here in England, most people believe in heaven, god the father, and beyond that they have nothing to say on the matter (but still tick the christian box on a survey).

Of all of the posts I have read in this thread I agree with this one. I would reply but I couldn't have said it better myself. That is pretty much the way I see it in America as well.

---

Well, because the bible says God is Omniscient. Meaning, 'He knows everything.

Can you show me where that is in the Bible?

I get this gut feeling sometimes.. I can know what God is thinking.

I would never think like that. That is spiritually dangerous. There is too much danger that you think for God, religious or demonic influence.

I agree with some things you say, though. I really liked this . . .

Gee, Do I believe in atoms? Why of course I do. Have you read the bible lately? It says, "God prepared the worlds with things that cannot be seen." What created the universe? Invisible atoms?

Science laughed and scoffed at the bible verse. They claimed, "How could invisible materials create the Universe??" lol. Who's laughing now?

I love it when someone points those sorts of things out to atheists. Then talk about cherry picking response. They start stammering and trying to explain why that can't mean anything. Of course they could see it's meaning before science proved they were the ones that were wrong, but afterward they become blind.

[LukeMC]

I get this gut feeling sometimes.. I can know what God is thinking.

Oh, like Hitler did?

[Ace Otana]

Gee, Do I believe in atoms? Why of course I do. Have you read the bible lately? It says, "God prepared the worlds with things that cannot be seen." What created the universe? Invisible atoms?

Science laughed and scoffed at the bible verse. They claimed, "How could invisible materials create the Universe??" lol. Who's laughing now?

Atoms can be seen, just not by the human eye.

We can detect atoms and we can effect them. Atoms are in the air, we breath it all the time. Without atoms you wouldn't be able to post anything since your computer is made up of atoms. Cars wouldn't work since the fuel wouldn't ignite.

Air can be seen in the right conditions like heat and cold.

The thing is, we know they are there because we can detect them. God is beyond reality, you can't even tell me what he's made of.

Sorry but this tactic won't work. You just don't understand physics.

Now there is a forum you could pay a visit to which is based on science and they can tell you all you need to know, unless you want to put your fingers in your ears and continue dreaming?

[lukec]

Hey Dotard- thanks for responding to Psalm point for point- I wanted to but I just couldn't... couldn't make myself do it.

[Dotard]

Science laughed and scoffed at the bible verse. They claimed, "How could invisible materials create the Universe??" lol. Who's laughing now?

Can you show me one scientific journal that supports this? Show me where and when "science laughed and scoffed at the bible verse". Show me where and when "They" claimed "How could invisible materials create the Universe??"

---

I wanted to but I just couldn't... couldn't make myself do it.

It is difficult to make myself talk to cement-heads sometimes. Folks like Psalm tend to just keep their fingers in their ears and go "la la la". Maybe he might just get a point and rethink his stubborness about his security blanket.

Or maybe not.

[Psalm 23]

Supports my contentions. If you truely believed this then you would sell everything and give it all away. Your talking a blink of an eye, eternally speaking, and ten fold rewards for eternity. If you don't give it all to the needy then you really don't believe in a reality of ten fold rewards for eternity.

I give to those who are in need. Me and a group of my friends were walking into a sandwich shop, and I saw a bum sitting on the sidewalk, and I handed him a five dollar bill, and that man looked at me and said, "Thank you! God bless you, son." Someone that has nothing in their life still depends of God. If that's not faith, then I don't know what is. Some of you should be ashamed.

Don't steal, don't kill, don't worship other Gods, don't hump the neighbors wife..... Do you really find these hard to abide by? Have you seen my neighbor's wife?! If you find these hard to abide by then you are one weak-assed puppy and should seek help from a mental health professional.

Yes, not to me, but I'm talking American society in general, Killing, cheating on your spouse, sleeping with the neighbors wife..etc..etc..,, that has become the American lifestyle. Actually the lifestyle of the entire world!! So Yes, these commandments are very hard to live by. Who would have thought a bunch of commandments from 3,000 years ago would still hold any relevance in 2008.

women and children was acceptable?!

In a time of war, even the innocent had to die.

Was Jesus God? Were they one in the same? Thou must readith thy bible more.

Show me where Jesus commanded his followers to kill, and then we can further this debate.

You really should read more. The God delusion can be scientificly measured.

I'm sorry, but no it cannot.

But since biologists discovered this I guess you auto-reject their findings huh?

I don't think a biologist is qualified to determine a mental disorder. Did you read the book "The Dawkins Delusion?" It was written by a psychiatrist.

I am receiving a vision from God right now and I'm writing down what God is telling me here within this reply. Why do you believe? Because some anceint dudes claimed it to be so and wrote it down! Do you know how absurd that makes you look?

If you claimed you received a vision from God.. who am I to say you didn't? I wasn't there, I cannot refute that claim. The same with "these ancient dudes." You cannot disprove their claim. Even though you probably think you have.

God mind reader!!

That right. And after he reads your posts, he buries his face in his hands.

Please share these answers with us. And please be able to support your answers with more than "I know what God is thinking."

Why should I share something with someone who doesn't believe?

And you cannot prove I am not an invisible leprechaun that lives in the internets.

What does an invisible leprechaun look like?

Bible says believe or you will not be in the book of life. Rev. 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Sounds like a "worship me or else!" to me.

That verse is about the return of Nero! Re-read that verse, Einstein. It's talking about THOSE who WILL worship Nero when he returns to Power! I hope you're not a Bible scholar?

Again, supports my OP. Your belief would have to have 100% complete obsessive devotion because "on judgement day, it's all over for you.".

No, Jesus said "Believe in Me," and you shall be granted eternal life with the Father. And those who have rejected me, I will reject you in front of the Father.

Have to agree somewhat here. When one begins to use profanity they lose a bit of credibility, to the lesser minded. The astute knows a frustration induced bit of profanity does not distract from the point being made and can sometimes emphasize the point.

Yes, especially when this person dismissed the God-figure, but freely uses his name in a state of anger. Hmm?

Paschels wager.

Pascal's Wager is simple. I believe in God, so I win, but if God does not exist, I also win. Nothing more, Nothing less.

Where did you come to that conclusion? Do you know how absurd that makes you look? And you know this.. how? What scientist blessed you with such vast knowledge about our Universe?

There could be life beyond what mankind can reach. I cannot know that.

That is exactly how your bible says it was created!

No,read Hebrews, It says, "God prepared the worlds with things that cannot be seen." "Atoms?"

Please share some of this proof with the class. Just keep in mind the bible is NOT proof.

Yes, the bible is proof. It's been proven over the centuries. Do you assume only insane and delusional people believe in the bible?

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Ok, Now I can see you are just being, either really ignorant, or you don't understand the bible one ioda. Jesus used the word Sin'ah in that verse. Sin'ah meant :to love lesser then: All Jesus was saying is, we must put God before anyone.

That would be my contention, yes.

You are confused.

That tidbit does not distract from the fact that it was your God that ordered folks to stone their children. And dash them upon the rocks. And be happy to do so.

Oh gee, "the dash little kids against rocks." That verse didnt mean little children.. it was talking about the Tribes of future generations of Israel! lmao!!!! Good Grief!!!

Jesus contradicting himself. Remember, Jesus was God.

That's correct. Jesus was God. No contradiction.

This is a question best asked of yourself.

Sorry, but I'm not affected by religion, You are! I believe in religion, so it's totally acceptable to discuss it. What's your excuse?

And somehow you think this was a good thing.

No, I didn't say it was a good thing. Now you are just adding words to my posts, and that lowers your credibility. I said, God had to take care of business. He knew the pagans were sacrificing their children in the name of their gods, so he commanded the Jews to take over their land and destroy them.

[Ace Otana]

The problem seems to be with page 2.

[Edwardo Piet]

http://www.adherents.com

How exactly do those statistics distinguish between "belief" and belief in belief?

They don't, but it shows you the world's leading religions.

Have I misunderstood, or isn't the whole point of this topic that believers, at least, don't always believe what they claim to believe?

Christians donate money and food because Jesus said give to those in need. And your reward in Heaven will be ten fold.

But there's a lot of horrible stuff in the bible too. So the Christians cherry-pick the good parts from the bible. Yes of course, you could say, for instance, "the core part of the bible is the goodness of Jesus" but by what criteria do we pick this out? With a natural empathy thats outside the bible itself. You don't use the book to interpret the book the first time you've seen it or heard of it do you? So you don't whatsoever have to be a Christian or any other kind of theist in order to do moral and ethical things like give to charity. And if you were to simply add up all the numbers of how much actual money is given to charity by everyone in the world. That of course would not be a fair comparison because atheism is in the minority at least and especially compared to the abahamic religions, which includes Christianity of course.

I believe the 10 Commandments were the moral decency laws that mankind is supposed to live by. If you stop and think about it. Every single one of those commandments are THE hardest to abide by. Even in modern times..

That's simply not true. They're not perfect morals at all. Look at the 2nd commandment for instance, is no graven images really so important as to be in the ten commandments of a being of superintelligence? You can believe it if you will. But how?

Neither the Qu'ran or the Holy Bible condone killing innocent women and children. In a time of warfare, yes, it was acceptable to kill to protect your Land or Family... God did give the Jews the command to take over land occupied by pagans because Jehovah knew they were sacrificing their children in the name of their gods.

What about the stoning to death of children if they talk back to you thats in the OT? And stoning adulterers? And stoning homosexuals, for instance. And doesn't it also say in the Koran to basically kill disbelievers?

I agree with you 100%!! There have been many atrocities over religious battles. I cannot speak for my ancient Christian brothers. There must have been a reason why they did what they did. Because the Jesus I know didn't command his Disciples to murder people.

Ok so you agree with me 100%? And yet you didn't answer my question. So do you agree that these things can't be done in the name of unbelief in God (atheism) but can however be done in the name of "God" and because of religion? Since atheism is not a belief system, its just a lack of belief in God. Or do you agree with the atrocities but you don't think they can be done because of religion? I certainly agree with Volitare when he said: 'Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.'
The fact that we have these absurdities in these 'holy' books and that so many people believe in them. This can lead to atrocities. That's what I think.

I don't pick and choose, but I also know it's not my place to judge what my ancient fellow brothers did 3,000 years ago. I cannot speak for an event that took place 30 centuries ago. I'm not God.

Yes but that's not the point. The point is there are lots of literally horrific explicit propositions that you choose to reject, are there not? So by what criteria do you pick and choose from propositions in a 'holy' book? Your innate natural goodness. And yes you're not God. But there's no evidence that there's a God at all.

Mental patients that are delusional and insane are detected by medical examiners. Delusional patterns can be detected by science. So far, no signs of God being a mental disorder. Well, unless you read a book authored by a Biologist.

But ultimately thats not the definition of delusion now is it? And not what I necessarily mean. What I certainly do mean is belief in the absurd. Belief in things without any evidence in its truth whatsoever. Belief merely for the sake of belief. That's what I mean by delusion. You can be otherwise completely sane, but believe strongly in highly delusional nonsense.

Evolution does not say anything about the origin of life. That is Abiogenesis.

Correct.

because the bible says God is Omniscient. Meaning, 'He knows everything."

And that's a good reason to believe you know God's mind? because you read it in a book that claimed to know his mind? Hell I could write one myself. You wouldn't believe that would you? So surely its a bit more complicated than that Or is it? Alternatively is it just your upbringing and your blind faith is preventing you from seeing otherwise. Or, I dare say,"seeing the light"?

Because these ancient men claimed to receive visions from God. And they wrote down that God told them, 'All who believe in him are saved and will share everlasting paradise with the creator." Geez, sounds simple enough..Sounds like a pretty cool story, too. I think it's awesome these men were chosed to witness God so they can share it with the rest of the world.

Ok so ancient men claimed things. Wow! how compelling. Now I can see why you believe them. You assume they're true because some people wrote them thousands of years ago? Now if that's not weak evidence I don't know what is. Why believe THAT?

I get this gut feeling sometimes.. I can know what God is thinking.

How utterly, breathtakingly absurd. You actually think you're own thoughts correspond to the thoughts of the creator of the universe somehow? How could you get a more absurd and weaker argument than that? That's such a delusion its mind boggling if you actually DO really believe that. Do you really believe that? Come on you're joking, surely. How thoroughly arrogant and unpleasant that is. You can know what God is thinking. F**king hell! Seriously?

I know the bible is the word of God. There have been just too many prophecies that have been fulfilled. I was brought up to believe in nothing. I was not raised in a Christian family. We were anything but a Christian family. I recently found God on my own around 4 years ago.

Believe me, I used to have the same exact questions you do, but I found the answers..

You found the answers? So no more learning from now on huh? You know the answers. Minds out. Could anything change your mind? Since you proclaim that many prophecies have been fulfilled when there's no evidence that ANY have. And you arrogantly claim that at times you can know the mind of God. Seriously? Sorry but. I doubt you asked the same questions as me or understood them as much. After all you appear to have misunderstood my questions several times already. I talk about the burden of proof and you don't appear to actually know what it means or understand it for example. Oh and inform me on the evidence of how anyone can REALLY know for sure what God is thinking? Cos I've never heard of any and its so blatantly bullshit. So inform me on this

Yes, Bill O'Reilly pretty much told Dawkins, "Listen, Catholicism makes me a happier person, and I donate my time and money to the Church.. so if it makes me happy and I'm helping others, why in the Hell are you so concerned about that?"

So why are you defending him then? Are you justifiying his delusion so long as it makes him happy? It doesn't matter if he's wrong if it makes him happy? Do you believe the same for you then? Or is this a double-standard? And don't you realize that delusional beliefs are not a good thing despite whether they give you consolation or not. Especially if you don't need to actually believe those specific things to get consolation and that belief is not simply a matter of policy. Fake belief does not=belief.

I'm sure he raised a few atheist eyebrows. He slapped Dawkins with the ultimate, "You cannot prove Jesus Christ wasn't God."

You STILL don't understand the burden of proof. Ok well you cannot disprove Zeus. Does that give any evidence to the fact that Zeus might be more likely to exist now that I have said that? Or that its 50/50? Or does it mean I am making a claim based on absolutely nothing. Zero evidence. And that Zeus obviously is extremely unlikely to exist to say the least. And I mean exactly the actual mythical Zeus that the ancient Greeks believe in. You can't disprove that. You can't disprove "x God" is an extremely weak argument. I could conceive of any God I wanted. Make the whole thing up. And you couldn't disprove THAT either. That argument with nothing to back it up, is extremely weak and not really an argument at all.

Apparently he knows something you don't.

Sorry but do you know what logic IS? How on earth does the fact he believes in comforting things mean that those beliefs are actually true? Have you EVER even heard of the placebo effect?

You don't have to respect him if you don't want to. Nobody is forcing you to worship Jehovah or else! This isn't the year 600 B.C.

I know this. But why do you respect him/her/it?