Body shaming, and "My Big Fat Fabulous Life"

[Pyrrho]

Fat people don't usually have their fat waft over into other people's faces.  And most smokers throw their butts on the ground.  Smokers very often ask for it.  Not all, of course.  I have met a few (very few) smokers who are considerate of others.

I think this is an example of what I'm saying. What you are saying isn't really that bad but lets rework that into something about fat people, say:

"Fat people throw their candy wrappers all over the place, they are asking to be made fun of, very few are considerate of others"

That would be considered horrific fat shaming. It's definitely a double standard.

If fat people all threw candy wrappers on the ground, I would be very much against fat people.  But throwing candy wrappers on the ground does not seem to be connected with how fat the person is.  Just with how much of an inconsiderate asshole the person is.

Basically, with the few considerate smokers I have encountered, I have been very impressed with them.  The only reason I wish they did not smoke is that they are good people and they will likely die sooner and have other health problems because of it.  Other than that, their smoking does not bother me.  The assholes who smoke cannot die fast enough as far as I am concerned.

[brewer]

Personally, I think people are more openly and publicly vitriolic towards smokers than the obese.

You should see the way they look/act when ya got a needle in your arm. (diabetic friend)

[Athene]

True. Lots of shit people do to and with their bodies is unhealthy. I don't think people view these other things with the same level of vitriol as obesity. Personal disgust seems to be at play, masquerading as concern.

I guess you did not see my rant in the smoking thread?  lol.


So, I guess no one is allowed to discuss it, or else we are body shaming. That is the level it has gotten to, and that IS a problem.  If a doctor bringing up your weight is now considered body shaming, then there isn't anything anyone can say, I guess, without being accuse of operating out of personal disgust, rather than concern.

Should I not care that my 34 year old friend had a heart attack?   If she'd had it due to smoking, AND there was a TV show glorifying smoking, you'd better bet your ass I'd have the exact same discussion, here.

This has gotten to be a lose/lose situation for everyone.  : You can't even bring it up without being accused of body shaming.  That's kind of my point.

I didn't say no one could bring it up and never used the words body shaming. I don't think I ever have used the term until the previous sentence. My point was to simply say that most fat people are painfully aware of the fact that they are fat, and it bothers them a great deal. 
That fact is not is lost on them. 

I would agree that you should care that your friend had a heart attack.  Who wouldn't?

Obviously a physician is in a position to a determine possible factors as to why someone a weight problem.  That's not something an person who is not a medical professional can determine by looking at someone or even knowing them personally. Obesity is not always attributed to lifestyle choices or lack of will, although that seems to be the easy answer. Underlying medical conditions, hormonal imbalances, psychological stress/depression, past sexual trauma, immobility from physical injury, addiction and any number of issues come into play.

Why should a show about a fat person bother people so much? There had to have been reprehensible, irresponsible, television shows before this one, right? Why does this particular show, surrounding this particular person, with this particular condition cause such outrage? It makes me wonder.

[Pyrrho]

Personally, I think people are more openly and publicly vitriolic towards smokers than the obese.

You should see the way they look/act when ya got a needle in your arm. (diabetic friend)

You know, using a needle would not bother me so much, even for getting high in public, as long as the person was not recklessly waving about the needle, endangering others.  If what someone does affects themselves and no one else, I am generally okay with it.  But when they start affecting others (and not just their "feelings"), then I object.  This is where the smoking matter comes into play.  If they inhaled all of the smoke, and did not exhale any of it, and if they did not leave butts all over the place, then it would be a concern for them, not for me.  But when their smoking puts smoke in my lungs and their damn butts on the ground, then I object.  For the needle to be a problem, they would have to be injecting me without my consent (or some other analogous conduct).  And obviously, I would object to that, just like I object to people putting smoke in my lungs without my consent.

Of course, not everyone feels as I do, and many want to impose their will on others.  But I personally think people should be allowed to kill themselves if they want to do so, whether it be fast or slow.  As long as they do not harm others in the process.  The fact that someone else is upset counts for nothing to me.  No matter what one does, someone is upset.  The fact that fascist assholes are upset when someone else decides to live their lives as they see fit (in a way that does no harm to others) upsets me, so they should fucking stop that if we are all going to be concerned about everyone's feelings.

[Aroura]

I guess you did not see my rant in the smoking thread?  lol.


So, I guess no one is allowed to discuss it, or else we are body shaming. That is the level it has gotten to, and that IS a problem.  If a doctor bringing up your weight is now considered body shaming, then there isn't anything anyone can say, I guess, without being accuse of operating out of personal disgust, rather than concern.

Should I not care that my 34 year old friend had a heart attack?   If she'd had it due to smoking, AND there was a TV show glorifying smoking, you'd better bet your ass I'd have the exact same discussion, here.

This has gotten to be a lose/lose situation for everyone.  : You can't even bring it up without being accused of body shaming.  That's kind of my point.

I didn't say no one could bring it up and never used the words body shaming. I don't think I ever have used the term until the previous sentence. My point was to simply say that most fat people are painfully aware of the fact that they are fat, and it bothers them a great deal. 
That fact is not is lost on them. 

I would agree that you should care that your friend had a heart attack.  Who wouldn't?

Obviously a physician is in a position to a determine possible factors as to why someone a weight problem.  That's not something an person who is not a medical professional can determine by looking at someone or even knowing them personally. Obesity is not always attributed to lifestyle choices or lack of will, although that seems to be the easy answer. Underlying medical conditions, hormonal imbalances, psychological stress/depression, past sexual trauma, immobility from physical injury, addiction and any number of issues come into play.

Why should a show about a fat person bother people so much? There had to have been reprehensible, irresponsible, television shows before this one, right? Why does this particular show, surrounding this particular person, with this particular condition cause such outrage? It makes me wonder.

I'm sorry, my comment about not being able to bring it up was sort of rhetorically directed at my friend, who was upset at her doctor telling her she need to loose weight in order to have a healthy pregnancy.  I didn't really mean to direct it at you.

I also think I explained that her heart attack, combined with her refusal to even try and lose weight, combined with me seeing this show a few days later is why it bothered me so much.

To answer the bolded question more specifically though, it bothers me because it's an epidemic, one that is spreading, and one that should never, ever be glorified but is being glorified.  I don't actually give a rats ass about the woman in that show, I don't know her.  But she is ENCOURAGING bad behavior in people I DO care about, like my friend. 

Again, do I need to list every single bad TV show ever first in order to discuss this one?  Do you know that I haven't bitched about bad TV shows encouraging other kinds of bad behavior in the past?  Why are you so determined to defend this TV show in such a way?  It makes me wonder

[Athene]

I didn't say no one could bring it up and never used the words body shaming. I don't think I ever have used the term until the previous sentence. My point was to simply say that most fat people are painfully aware of the fact that they are fat, and it bothers them a great deal. 
That fact is not is lost on them. 

I would agree that you should care that your friend had a heart attack.  Who wouldn't?

Obviously a physician is in a position to a determine possible factors as to why someone a weight problem.  That's not something an person who is not a medical professional can determine by looking at someone or even knowing them personally. Obesity is not always attributed to lifestyle choices or lack of will, although that seems to be the easy answer. Underlying medical conditions, hormonal imbalances, psychological stress/depression, past sexual trauma, immobility from physical injury, addiction and any number of issues come into play.

Why should a show about a fat person bother people so much? There had to have been reprehensible, irresponsible, television shows before this one, right? Why does this particular show, surrounding this particular person, with this particular condition cause such outrage? It makes me wonder.

I'm sorry, my comment about not being able to bring it up was sort of rhetorically directed at my friend, who was upset at her doctor telling her she need to loose weight in order to have a healthy pregnancy.  I didn't really mean to direct it at you.

I also think I explained that her heart attack, combined with her refusal to even try and lose weight, combined with me seeing this show a few days later is why it bothered me so much.

To answer the bolded question more specifically though, it bothers me because it's an epidemic, one that is spreading, and one that should never, ever be glorified but is being glorified.  I don't actually give a rats ass about the woman in that show, I don't know her.  But she is ENCOURAGING bad behavior in people I DO care about, like my friend. 

Again, do I need to list every single bad TV show ever first in order to discuss this one?  Do you know that I haven't bitched about bad TV shows encouraging other kinds of bad behavior in the past?  Why are you so determined to defend this TV show in such a way?  It makes me wonder

By all means, discuss any show you want. You posted a thread, asking for opinions and I responded. That's how it works, right? My opinion is that I don't feel that fat people shouldn't feel less entitled to be visible, because they are fat.

Some may see this show as encouraging bad behavior, others may see it as encouraging not hating yourself. I really don't care about the show one way or other. I was just participating in the overall discussion.

[CapnAwesome]

Obesity is not always attributed to lifestyle choices or lack of will, although that seems to be the easy answer. Underlying medical conditions, hormonal imbalances, psychological stress/depression, past sexual trauma, immobility from physical injury, addiction and any number of issues come into play.

Why should a show about a fat person bother people so much? There had to have been reprehensible, irresponsible, television shows before this one, right? Why does this particular show, surrounding this particular person, with this particular condition cause such outrage? It makes me wonder.

I hate this sort of answer. Although the woman in that show has a condition, the vast vast vast majority of overweight people do not. Stress and depression could cause someone to overeat, but it's the eating that causes the weight gain. For 95% of people, the only reason you are obese is because you consume more calories than you burn. It's offensively anti-science and against the evidence to claim otherwise. Same goes with the old excuse of metabolism, which varies only slightly in the giant majority of the population. I think it's that excuse making and the bullshit that bothers me more than the sight of fat people, which I really don't care one way or another about.

Imagine for a moment it was a show glorifying smoking. How would you feel about that?

[Aroura]

I'm sorry, my comment about not being able to bring it up was sort of rhetorically directed at my friend, who was upset at her doctor telling her she need to loose weight in order to have a healthy pregnancy.  I didn't really mean to direct it at you.

I also think I explained that her heart attack, combined with her refusal to even try and lose weight, combined with me seeing this show a few days later is why it bothered me so much.

To answer the bolded question more specifically though, it bothers me because it's an epidemic, one that is spreading, and one that should never, ever be glorified but is being glorified.  I don't actually give a rats ass about the woman in that show, I don't know her.  But she is ENCOURAGING bad behavior in people I DO care about, like my friend. 

Again, do I need to list every single bad TV show ever first in order to discuss this one?  Do you know that I haven't bitched about bad TV shows encouraging other kinds of bad behavior in the past?  Why are you so determined to defend this TV show in such a way?  It makes me wonder

By all means, discuss any show you want. You posted a thread, asking for opinions and I responded. That's how it works, right? My opinion is that I don't feel that fat people shouldn't feel less entitled to be visible, because they are fat.

Some may see this show as encouraging bad behavior, others may see it as encouraging not hating yourself. I really don't care about the show one way or other. I was just participating in the overall discussion.

Oh my, I don't think fat people should be less visible!  Quite the opposite!  I wish the issues could be MORE visible without dressing it up as something it's not. 

Sorry, I did not mean to sounds so negative or aggressive towards you, personally.

[CapnAwesome]

You should see the way they look/act when ya got a needle in your arm. (diabetic friend)

You know, using a needle would not bother me so much, even for getting high in public, as long as the person was not recklessly waving about the needle, endangering others.  If what someone does affects themselves and no one else, I am generally okay with it.  But when they start affecting others (and not just their "feelings"), then I object.  This is where the smoking matter comes into play.  If they inhaled all of the smoke, and did not exhale any of it, and if they did not leave butts all over the place, then it would be a concern for them, not for me.  But when their smoking puts smoke in my lungs and their damn butts on the ground, then I object.  For the needle to be a problem, they would have to be injecting me without my consent (or some other analogous conduct).  And obviously, I would object to that, just like I object to people putting smoke in my lungs without my consent.

Of course, not everyone feels as I do, and many want to impose their will on others.  But I personally think people should be allowed to kill themselves if they want to do so, whether it be fast or slow.  As long as they do not harm others in the process.  The fact that someone else is upset counts for nothing to me.  No matter what one does, someone is upset.  The fact that fascist assholes are upset when someone else decides to live their lives as they see fit (in a way that does no harm to others) upsets me, so they should fucking stop that if we are all going to be concerned about everyone's feelings.

I really wonder how often smokers put smoke in your lungs without your consent. Maybe if you spend a lot of time in Casinos in Nevada or Bars in Alaska. Other than that I can't really think the last time I was even exposed to second hand smoke.

[Pyrrho]

You know, using a needle would not bother me so much, even for getting high in public, as long as the person was not recklessly waving about the needle, endangering others.  If what someone does affects themselves and no one else, I am generally okay with it.  But when they start affecting others (and not just their "feelings"), then I object.  This is where the smoking matter comes into play.  If they inhaled all of the smoke, and did not exhale any of it, and if they did not leave butts all over the place, then it would be a concern for them, not for me.  But when their smoking puts smoke in my lungs and their damn butts on the ground, then I object.  For the needle to be a problem, they would have to be injecting me without my consent (or some other analogous conduct).  And obviously, I would object to that, just like I object to people putting smoke in my lungs without my consent.

Of course, not everyone feels as I do, and many want to impose their will on others.  But I personally think people should be allowed to kill themselves if they want to do so, whether it be fast or slow.  As long as they do not harm others in the process.  The fact that someone else is upset counts for nothing to me.  No matter what one does, someone is upset.  The fact that fascist assholes are upset when someone else decides to live their lives as they see fit (in a way that does no harm to others) upsets me, so they should fucking stop that if we are all going to be concerned about everyone's feelings.

I really wonder how often smokers put smoke in your lungs without your consent. Maybe if you spend a lot of time in Casinos in Nevada or Bars in Alaska. Other than that I can't really think the last time I was even exposed to second hand smoke.

Maybe you are a young whippersnapper and do not remember how things were in the U.S. years ago.  These days, it is not nearly the problem in the U.S. as it was in the past, though still people smoke in public places where I need to go and so I still am breathing some smoke occasionally.  (Smokers often like to smoke near doorways to buildings, so that anyone who needs to enter the building is subjected to their smoke.)  But it was quite a bit different for the earlier part of my life, and now things are much better for people who do not want to be forced to breath smoke from other people's choices.

The point, though, is that what others do is rightfully a matter of my concern when it actually affects me.  If what someone does only affects themselves, then that is their business and not mine.

The change to how things are now is in part due to calling the smokers out on their activities affecting others.  And changing laws to stop people from forcing others to breath their smoke (which is why there are so many nonsmoking areas now).

If people ate their cigarettes instead of smoking them, I would be fine with them doing that almost anywhere.  But smokers do not keep their smoke to themselves, and so it is a matter that affects those around them.  That is how it differs from someone injecting or eating or drinking their drug of choice.  I do not care that they choose to use a drug; I only care that they share it with people against their will.  If I started injecting people with drugs against their will and forcing drugs down people's throats, I would be regarded as a monster.  Yet smokers force their drug on those around them, typically without giving a fuck about it at all.  That is why so many people justly hate so many smokers.  Of course, as I have already stated, not every smoker is an inconsiderate asshole, and so not all of these comments apply to every smoker.  But to those to whom they do apply, they cannot die fast enough.