A Non-Religious Person's Meaning in Life and Death

[Neo-Scholastic]

Sure anyone can make up a nice little fantasy about what their life means. That's not the point. The point is whether there is any substance behind the meaning they profess.

[The Grand Nudger]

A breathtakingly foolish statement, coming from yourself.

[LadyForCamus]

Sure anyone can make up a nice little fantasy about what their life means. That's not the point. The point is whether there is any substance behind the meaning they profess.

:: sigh:: and I suppose -you- will be the one to designate what qualifies as a...substantive meaningful life, correct?

[abaris]

The question to me isn't whether or not this life has meaning to an atheist or not.  It's more that the atheist is not experiencing the entire meaning of life because he doesn't believe in the afterlife.

Or, the atheist doesn't wear the ball and chains of playing nice nice to their particular brand of whatever whoo. The atheist can enjoy life to it's fullest. Death is just biology taking it's course.

Personally, I wouldn't want to be associated with what some christians call values. They certainly don't rise up to Jesus's standards and yet think of themselves as predestines for the fast track to heaven. Such as, caring for the poor - Jesus was pretty adamant about that, you know. There's even that quote about a camel and the eye of a needle.

[Lek]

Sure it does.  Intentional martyrdom is suicide.  Knowingly giving up one's own life for one's beliefs.  You think of martyrdom as a virtue, but suicide an escape...so they can't be the same thing....ignoring that they are interchangeable in the most "virtuous" of situations, wherein the martyr fully understands the consequences of their actions.

I met plenty of people who committed suicide precisely -because- they belonged to god...I met them briefly and violently, generally, at the end of their lives.

Martyrdom is not suicide - and you're right that they are not the same thing. Martyrdom is giving up your your life for something more important than one's self. True, a person can be martyred for the wrong cause such as muslim "suicide bombers". I'd say that martyrdom for sufficient cause is a virtue, while martyrdom for the wrong cause is not.

I'll agree then, that theism can lead to martyrdom for a bad cause. Although I believe that true christian martyrs are dying for the right reasons. I would think that an atheist in great suffering would be more like likely than a christian, in the same situation to commit suicide because he feels it would relieve him of his suffering. A christian would not want to go against the will of God and would also know that a better life is coming.

[The Grand Nudger]

Martyrdom is not suicide - and you're right that they are not the same thing.  Martyrdom is giving up your your life for something more important than one's self.

b-mine

Suicide.  People commit suicide for many reasons. Shame, greater good, dissatisfaction, god..whatever.

True, a person can be martyred for the wrong cause such as muslim "suicide bombers".  I'd say that martyrdom for sufficient cause is a virtue, while martyrdom for the wrong cause is not.

That's not a "wrong reason", those people believe themselves to be doing the greatest and most difficult good. Your determination as to whether or not their matrydom was good or bad does not change the fact that it is suicide. If they had committed suicide for what you deemed to be "better reasons"........it would still be suicide.

I'll agree then, that theism can lead to martyrdom for a bad cause.  Although I believe that true christian martyrs are dying for the right reasons.

Who cares about whether or not you think their reasons for committing suicide are "right"?  Honestly....lol?  

I would think that an atheist in great suffering would be more like likely than a christian, in the same situation to commit suicide because he feels it would relieve him of his suffering.  A christian would not want to go against the will of God and would also know that a better life is coming.

Martyrdom does not go against gods will. They commit suicide -for- god...a point of fact over which you are entirely losing your religious shit. I appreciate that you worked in a true christian™, though. Kudos.

[Whateverist]

I've never understood the whole "meaning" argument. They seem to have it entirely backwards. If someone thinks this life is all there is, they are more likely to value it than someone who thinks it's just a relatively short introduction to the "real" life.

It's all the "real" life, no less real than the coming one.  The question to me isn't whether or not this life has meaning to an atheist or not.  It's more that the atheist is not experiencing the entire meaning of life because he doesn't believe in the afterlife.  This life here has much meaning to me and when it's time to go I'll probably experience some sad feelings because I'll think about missing loved ones and so on.  God doesn't want us to ..

Right.  We're just experiencing the real, here and now part.  The 'extra' you think you experience is just a life style choice.  You like the certainty of having your marching orders and knowing who to salute.  We're not all like that.

[Whateverist]

Sure anyone can make up a nice little fantasy about what their life means. That's not the point. The point is whether there is any substance behind the meaning they profess.

As opposed to just subscribing to one off the rack?  Other than that .. hey kettle, pot checking in.