Another raaaaaaaaaape!!!

[Catholic_Lady]

According to the woman's account, and if she's telling the truth, that is not what happened. She had kissed him on a separate occasion, not on that night. And they hadn't even gotten in the shower yet. As soon as she got in the bathroom he ripped her clothes off and raped and beat her.

But even if they were in the shower making out, if a person begins resisting and says "no" and "stop", the lines are no longer blurred. At that point it becomes rape and that is very clear. Again, a drunk person acting like an idiot is one thing. Raping someone is another.

If this is actually the way events unfolded, I'll rethink my position.

Yes, this is all assuming the rape actually happened. I understand there is a possibility that it didn't and that is up for the courts to decide. But if a rape happened, then the fact is the rapist is solely to blame for the rape... even if she made some stupid reckless decisions that got her in that situation.

[Foxaèr]

I believe the woman in question is just bat-shit psycho. I wonder if she has had a psyche eval, because I bet that would clear up so much.

[Catholic_Lady]

No, that's pretty much what I mean. We seem to be mostly in agreement, but you seem to think that while drunk people may be willing to get behind the wheel, or beat their kids, that rape is somehow a line that alcohol is unable to cause some people to cross for reasons I'm not sure of.

If you think I am mostly in agreement, then you have seriously misunderstood me. 

And yes, I do think getting behind the wheel while drunk is a stupid thing that any person can do. Now, rape and beating children?? Nope. If you do either of those things when you are drunk, there is something seriously wrong with you. Those aren't just silly mistakes average people make when they drink.

[Catholic_Lady]

See? This is what I have a problem with. You're acting as though men are so out of control of their own sexual urges that women shouldn't be around them at all in an intimate setting unless they plan on having sex with them. 

I get that we need to be careful, but this is just a bit too far imho.

Well I am male, and I have hung around men for many a year, so I have some experience with the thought processes that young men sometimes have. We're horndogs. Always pack a tazer, and aim for the crotch.

Again, there's a difference between being a horndog and being a rapist. Rape is about power and violence, not just about sex.

[Foxaèr]

Now, rape and beating children?? Nope. If you do either of those things when you are drunk, there is something seriously wrong with you. Those aren't just silly mistakes average people make when they drink.

You seem to not quite understand how drunkenness works. Alcohol is a control inhibitor, for instance. Judgment is increasingly impaired in accordance with how much is consumed. In the right circumstances, no matter who you are, having consumed a huge amount of alcohol is no guarantee that you are even you anymore.

[Catholic_Lady]

Now, rape and beating children?? Nope. If you do either of those things when you are drunk, there is something seriously wrong with you. Those aren't just silly mistakes average people make when they drink.

You seem to not quite understand how drunkenness works.  Alcohol is a control inhibitor, for instance.  Judgment is increasingly impaired in accordance with how much is consumed.  In the right circumstances, no matter who you are, having consumed a huge amount of alcohol is no guarantee that you are even you anymore.

To get to the point of raping someone and beating up on children?? Alcohol doesn't make regular people become complete monsters unless they already have some sort of deep seeded issue or propensity to extreme violence to begin with. You and Chad are acting as though these are things that any ol' person could do if they got drunk enough. Nonetheless if a person knows that alcohol somehow totally transforms them from a decent, stable person to a completely evil psychopath who goes around beating up on kids or raping women, then they are monsters anyway for continuing to allow themselves to get drunk.

[Foxaèr]

To get to the point of raping someone and beating up on children?? Alcohol doesn't make regular people become complete monsters unless they already have some sort of deep seeded issue or propensity to extreme violence to begin with. You and Chad are acting as though these are things that any ol' person could do if they got drunk enough. Nonetheless if a person knows that alcohol somehow totally transforms them from a decent, stable person to a completely evil psychopath who goes around beating up on kids or raping women, then they are monsters anyway for continuing to allow themselves to get drunk.

You might be correct.

[Thumpalumpacus]

If this is actually the way events unfolded, I'll rethink my position.

Yes, this is all assuming the rape actually happened. I understand there is a possibility that it didn't and that is up for the courts to decide. But if a rape happened, then the fact is the rapist is solely to blame for the rape... even if she made some stupid reckless decisions that got her in that situation.

Agreed, a person making themselves vulnerable doesn't excuse another person exploiting said vulnerability.

[account_inactive]

To get to the point of raping someone and beating up on children?? Alcohol doesn't make regular people become complete monsters unless they already have some sort of deep seeded issue or propensity to extreme violence to begin with. You and Chad are acting as though these are things that any ol' person could do if they got drunk enough. Nonetheless if a person knows that alcohol somehow totally transforms them from a decent, stable person to a completely evil psychopath who goes around beating up on kids or raping women, then they are monsters anyway for continuing to allow themselves to get drunk.

Or they could be psychopaths with a drinking problem.

[Aoi Magi]

We are not saying these things to her, we are discussing this amongst us.

If she was just a victim then responsibility probably won't even enter the picture, but when one wants to be a poster child and guide others, they have to be responsible as well.

You all seem to be forgetting a simple fact, that we don't live in a perfect world. Yes in a perfect world no means no and stop means stop, but if it were so easy in this world, no parent would have to worry so much about their teenage kids dating the wrong person or staying out late with the right person in wrong circumstances. So I don't see a point in discussing what should have happened rather it is better to take note of what happened and why.