The Immorality of God - Slavery in the Old Testament

[athrock]

I don't know why some people assume I haven't read the bible.

Well, athrok, I formally give up. I tried to help you. I assume your goal was to try and change the minds of someone here, about something. You're never going to succeed while you just project your assumptions onto people rather than asking them what they actually believe, and why.

Oh, I dunno...maybe it's because of the lack of accurately used quotes from the Bible in your posts. 

Or the apparent mis-characterizations about God, His Church and theology in general that result from ignorance about him.

So, read it again, maybe with a good commentary this time, and try to find a good book on theology. Mere Christianity was written by one of your countrymen, and it's a pretty good starting point. Give it a go if you haven't already.

[athrock]

Hey, you're right. I did mis-read your post. For this, I apologize.

BFF?

Lol. We're not there yet, but you're welcome to come to the deer butchering tonight.

I'll try to stop by if I can. 

[robvalue]

Oh wait, someone is bound to say you'd get bored in my better universe or you wouldn't enjoy it as much without children also being raped.

Well, you would enjoy it just as much. Because I'm all powerful, remember? The current weird rules we have in place need not carry over.

[athrock]

"Prior to man's fall, life was good."

This guy actually believes in the Golden Age of ancient mythology...

What I believe is that the author of Genesis was trying to convey the idea that life was better when man walked with God before the rebellion.

Assuming the text IS inspired, then I further believe that this is a message that the Holy Spirit was trying to convey, also.

[GrandizerII]

Don't be so butthurt. If people believe that the character of God as depicted in the Old Testament is that of a monster or a deranged psychotic narcissistic being, then that is because the character behaves exactly like one.

It seems to you a good atheist is one who nods in agreement with all the things you want them to agree with.

No, people judge one another erroneously all the time. We hear things like, "I thought John was a jerk at first, but he's really a nice guy when you get to know him."

If we do that with people we know in person, imagine how much easier it is for people to misjudge a God whom they don't know through the pages of a book they do not understand.

Yeah, but then again, John probably never went around slaughtering people.

There are people whom you may not be sure about whether they're jerks or not ... and then there are those who clearly are.

[The Grand Nudger]

"Prior to man's fall, life was good."

This guy actually believes in the Golden Age of ancient mythology...

What I believe is that the author of Genesis was trying to convey the idea that life was better when man walked with God before the rebellion.

Assuming the text IS inspired, then I further believe that this is a message that the Holy Spirit was trying to convey, also.

Which is a reassertion of the golden age of mythology.

[athrock]

So here's a quicky.

Could God achieve everything he wanted to in his plan, without slavery being made possible?

Same question for rape, violence, and so on.

If he could, then he's chosen to include these things because he wanted them there, and not for any other reason.

If he couldn't, then he has suspicious arbitrary context-sensitive restrictions depending on the argument at hand.

Yes, God could have achieved his plan without these things. These things were not part of His plan. They resulted from the fall of man.

If good is meant to come out of bad somehow, then he could just make the exact same amount of good, with all the knowledge and strength that may be, without letting anyone enslave anyone ever.

God did not create bad things in order for good things to come out of them. Man chose to do bad things, and yet, God is still able to bring about good from them.

Imagine an amazing wonderland where you can do anything you want, and have fun all day. Anything you can imagine, you can do. You just can't hurt anyone else. This would actually be a hell of a lot more free will than we currently have. For example, I'd be off roller skating through space eating endless pizzas and looking for clues in an amazing new interactive detective game I decided I wanted. Then I'd stop and chat with some friends, and maybe we'd play ultra-cards, a game perfectly designed for our group to fit in maximally with how we could enjoy a card game.

It would never cross our minds to hurt each other, ever. And we physically can't do it, even by accident.

Would you go live in that universe, or stay here?

Rob, you write these breezy posts and then when pressed, you say you're "formally done". Really? You're a mod. You're not going anywhere. You may even HAVE to read my posts just to keep an eye on things. (Maybe you only have to monitor the reported posts.)

I, on the other hand, can never be formally done with you, because I can't put a mod on my ignore list. So, the best I can do is to informally ignore you.

But I won't. You seem like a nice guy, and you mean well. You just haven't learned well.

Now, be honest, okay? What was the last book you read cover to cover that was written BY a Christian and when did you read it?

[The Grand Nudger]

Gods plan stymied by jumped up apes?  Some "god", some "plan".  I've been wondering why bad shit happens, I should have known that people are behind it, -all of it-.  So I guess that can be the takeaway of the thread.  

 I wonder, do you count as a christian?  I think that reading your posts is about as much christianity as I can stomach, personally.

[athrock]

Good question, Nestor.

In the context of the entire chapter, God's judgment was that the Israelites had forsaken His decrees and taken up the detestable practices of other nations. So, in this sense, they were doing the same things as the other nations. This seems to support my contention that it took a very, very long time for Israel to come around to God's way of thinking. Perhaps, in a manner of speaking, the Hebrews WERE worse than the other nations in that they had seen the mighty works of God performed on their behalf and yet they still rebelled like ungrateful children.

Is there something more in that chapter that you wish to highlight?

No, but since you're the one who brought up the specific issue of child sacrifice as a quasi-defense for the grotesque theology and law of the Old Testament, I figured you'd at least acknowledge Yahweh's direct use and sanctioning of it.

Sanctioning?

Nestor, you need to read more of the OT.

God's struggle with Israel was that they kept going back to the old gods, the old ways. He never told the Israelites to sacrifice their children.

On second thought...just stick with the New. Understanding justification should give you more than enough to think about. 

[brewer]

[edit] try to find a good book on theology. [edit]

How about the Silmarillion.