Cognitive dissonance

[robvalue]

Wait... you're suggesting faith based views could cause less cognitive dissonance? I'm not following how that could work. Could you please explain?

From the point of view of dulling the brain, like alcohol does, I can see religion doing that. I could understand a kind of drunk happiness as someone floats clueless through life, assuming everything will work out fine because a magic man is in charge. That kind of complacency could easily blow up in your face though, just like wandering around drunk all the time would.

[bennyboy]

Wait... you're suggesting faith based views could cause less cognitive dissonance? I'm not following how that could work. Could you please explain?

I already tried to, but let me try again.

I think the most flawed aspects of many people's world view is the sense that the self lives forever (you can say you won't, but can you really ever let it sink in?), and that important people will be there forever.  Keep in mind, I'm not talking about what people say they believe, but more about how ideas about self and family fit into the big picture of one's world view.

When a parent dies, it's something like a god dying-- it can have a huge impact on somebody.  BUT I think that religious people are likely to adapt more easily and quickly, since their loved one isn't "really" dead, what with them being in Heaven and all.  As for one's child dying-- I mean, Jesus fucking Christ that's hard for anyone.  But if you really believe that little Sally is in Heaven, and that you'll meet her again someday and give her a big hug, that's going to reduce that dissonance.  Such a person can get on with life, go back to work, seek support in church to keep their world view intact, and possibly avoid a mental breakdown.

By the way, I'd say the stages of grieving that everybody knows about are really different levels of cognitive dissonance.

[robvalue]

OK. Well, I can't speak for others, but I have no illusion that I'll live forever. I'm perfectly at peace with the idea that I'm going to die. I've had people before tell me, "No you're not!". I don't know what more I can say. I don't feel I have any dissonance around that subject. The same goes for loved ones who die, I keep them alive in my memory, but I know their literal existence has ended. I grieve properly, and come to terms with them only being memories.

I have heard that pretending people "don't really die" can actually be very unhealthy, and that it can stunt the grieving process. It leaves the mind in a kind of limbo where the person is still alive in some way, and so the brain can't move on. I've seen this first hand as well, one of my friends who lost a loved one is basically completely wrecked and can't function because they are obsessed with the idea of them still "being here".

I'm no expert on grieving, so I can only go by my personal experience and things I have heard. I can understand the idea that living in a fantasy land makes things superficially easier, but in the case of death, I'm suspicious that it's really beneficial in the long term. If you personally think grieving is in some way a bad thing in itself, then I can't argue with that.

[robvalue]

I may be unusual, I don't know. I had a chat with a friend about this subject recently, and he was quite amazed by my attitude. I've never had a problem with death, I've never worried about it as far as I can remember. I've adopted a pragmatic attitude, like I try to do with everything. I've never wanted to live forever, either.

It probably helped that I was never raised with any nonsense stories about living forever, or heaven. I can see how being made to believe that as a child could make it harder when you realize later on that it's not true. You've lost something, in effect. I never had it in the first place.

I can actually see the religious position on death causing dissonance, though. They're dead, yet they're alive. They're here, yet they're not. I just accept they are dead, but memories live on.

[Jackalope]

BTW, I would not say that holding contradictory views is common in theists. It's common in *people*.

[MTL]

I am certainly no expert, but I thought that cognitive dissonance was basically
the state of being irreconcilably conflicted, inwardly...or, also,
inflicting an irreconcilable conflict on someone;

IE:  A homosexual teenager, raised by fundies,
struggles with the irreconcilable conflict
that one hand, he knows he has never been anything other than attracted to the same sex,
but on the other hand, is told that homosexuality is a dire sin, and he wants to be a good Christian, too.

maybe that's not an ideal example, but you see what I'm driving at.

I also want to say that I thought that Cognitive Dissonance can also be INFLICTED on people;

IE:

My sister tells me:

- she wants to see me succeed
....but does everything in her power to facilitate my failure;

- that I am selfish
...when I sacrificed everything in my life to help my parents
(while she uses them, does NOTHING for them, and REPEATEDLY throws them under the bus)


....etc.

So basically, anyone who is a "Frenemy" is possibly guilty of "practicing Cognitive Dissonance"


.....No?

[Angrboda]

In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, performs an action that is contradictory to one or more beliefs, ideas or values, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.

Leon Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance focuses on how humans strive for internal consistency. An individual who experiences inconsistency (dissonance) tends to become psychologically uncomfortable, and is motivated to try to reduce this dissonance—as well as actively avoid situations and information likely to increase it.

[MTL]

It probably helped that I was never raised with any nonsense stories about living forever, or heaven. I can see how being made to believe that as a child could make it harder when you realize later on that it's not true. You've lost something, in effect.

So true.

I hate to admit to it, but for me, the loss of the "invisible best friend" was worse than the loss of "everlasting life".

I figured, "I'll be dead, I won't be aware of the loss; it's not like I'll be suffering somewhere, wishing I was still alive."


But the loss of that perceived friend left an enormous hole; a great loneliness
...even though I see it was only self-deception all along.


And if I was to be really honest,
(even though I still want to enjoy my life as much as possible for as long as possible)
I also now regard death as a bit if a relief, too, from the continuous strife of the world,
although maybe that's a shitty attitude for me to have, even in part.

It's just that although we have plenty of awesome traits,
humanity also has so much bullshit,

...and the upside of death is that at least you're finally  shut of it.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

By "more efficient," I mean avoiding cognitive dissonance, and thereby keeping the brain functioning normally.  It seems to me that in some cases, ignorance really is bliss.

It's also the brain not functioning!

[bennyboy]

I may be unusual, I don't know. I had a chat with a friend about this subject recently, and he was quite amazed by my attitude. I've never had a problem with death, I've never worried about it as far as I can remember. I've adopted a pragmatic attitude, like I try to do with everything. I've never wanted to live forever, either.

I'd say the death of one's children is probably the maximal psychological pain that one can experience, and that most people cannot really conceive what that is like.  Their world view doesn't include that, and if it does happen, there is definitely a high level of cognitive dissonance.  And I do think that sincere religious beliefs can mediate that pain greatly.

These days, most people die of old-age diseases, I believe: heart failure, stroke, cancer, etc.  Not that many kids die at age 5 of the plague or something.  I'd say the decline of religion is at least partly due to the decline of need for a remedy for cognitive dissonance.