My world is tearing apart

[confusedandscared]

Out of curiosity, do all Muslims have such great skill in relation to the English language?

I am born in a European country

[Excited Penguin]

I wonder what it would have been like to have ever been a theist.






Probably don't wanna know that first hand.

For me, as I remember it, it was like I was living in a dream before I realised God is a fantasy. It's sort of like being on auto-pilot, a happy idiot, so to speak. Who's to say that's not better? I don't really know, but it's not like I can go back.

[confusedandscared]

Hi there C&S, welcome to the forum

I'm very sorry for what you're going through. You've done extremely well to get to the questioning stage at such a young age. So many people don't manage it in their whole lives. They die still believing in utter nonsense.

It's all nonsense garbage, the lot of it. There is no good answer to your question. You're right, an all knowing God would know exactly what we're all going to do and who is going to hell for it. It is not consistent with free will. Many religious people convince themselves that both are true at once, because they have to have both sides of the contradiction. Sometimes God is all knowing, sometimes we have free will. It's bullshit.

The God storybook characters are a total joke, and the only way anyone believes it in this day and age is through indoctrination, or immersion in the mythology. If you'd never heard of Allah or Muhammad or whatever, you'd have never found out about them on your own. Because they're not real. They exist only in people's minds.

A God who even has a "hell" in the first place is evil. Not much more to say. Now add in that he makes people knowing damn well he's going to put them there, and he's about the most evil creature imaginable. If such a thing is real, it deserves no respect or worship. It deserves contempt and defiance.

Luckily, it's not real. Why do religious zealots always have to act themselves? Why do they have to silence people, to stop their God being offended by insults? Why do they have to do his dirty work for him? Kill for him? Ostracise people for him? Because if they didn't, he wouldn't do fuck all. On some level, they must know this, or else they wouldn't feel the need to constantly meddle in the affairs of others and they'd trust he would sort it out himself.

So welcome, tentatively, to reality You're almost there. Feel free to ask any more questions. I have some links on my website here to many excellent atheist materials, some of which make the point by satire, some in serious ways. Hopefully they will help you think it all through.

Thank you four the link.

To be honest after finding that fundamentals flaw it feels like I been looking at my religion from a whole other perspective.

Especially that part of God knowing everything.
So many parts of it when he got angry at prophets like another person said in the forum.

Is there any more fundamental honestly all I really want right now is to fully let go with 100 % certainty.

If it is 80-90% I feel like I am gambling my way to hell.
I hope you guys understand my Ramblin it's hard to put what I am saying in such a eloquent way

[bennyboy]

If God is real, certainly he's not trying to confuse you by being illogical and making you believe anyway. Much more likely is that someone is trying to make you suspend critical thinking by forcing you to believe ideas that are unbelievable. This is why cults have such strong followers-- believing such dumb ideas forces someone to completely suspend rational thought, and accept with the heart what the mind knows to be false.

There's much good in Islam, IMO. Many great philosophical ideas and much great literature are rooted in it. But you have to be brave enough to separate out the useful from the useless, and not let any "authority" tell you to accept without thinking. God is big enough to include you, but Islam isn't great enough to speak for God. . . not even close.

[robvalue]

You're welcome

The more you look into it, and the more you think about it, I am confident the surer you'll become that it's all nonsense. There is absolutely no credible evidence that there is any god; let alone a specific one. If there was just some sort of "god", that's nothing to worry about anyway. Some guy who made our reality? Big deal. It's the idea that he's gravely concerned with what we're all doing with our genitalia on this tiny little speck of rock in the middle of nowhere that is absurd.

I wasn't brought up with any religion. Neither was I "brought up atheist". My parents just never said anything about it to me at all. I first encountered it at school, loads of people all praying, talking to someone who wasn't there, and talking about "Jesus". I thought it was some sort of joke. Then I found out they were serous, and I thought there was something wrong with them. The teachers, at least. The other kids were mostly as confused as me, as indoctrination has fizzled out in our country.

Each religion is as stupid as the next, it's a load of quick and easy answers to very difficult questions. Hang around here some more, and ask anything that comes to mind. Read the theists here trying to answer all these kinds of difficult questions. There are no answers, there are bumbling rationalizations for what people already believe.

This is one of my favourite videos for showing how stupid all these religions are, with their crazy claims; and then me saying why I think religion is dumb and pointless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qahB7mYhLxs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W0mJ7svsKk

[brewer]

Welcome.

If you believe in the fantasy (god the omniscient) then free will is only an illusion. Sounds like you have found the fallacy (actually one of many) and have come to that conclusion. Now you need to decide what to do with your determination. Do you continue to believe, roll the dice and live your life hoping that you're one of the special one's that is not predestined to hell. Throw the free will illusion determination out but continue to believe and through good works buy your way into heaven (free will + god option). Or see the man made fantasy delusion for what it is, reject it and make the best life for yourself that you can.

Which ever one you choose I'll still wish you the best.

[Faith No More]

Welcome.

My question has always been that if this life is a test, and being omniscient, God already knows how we would perform on this test, why make us take the test in the first place when we could skip all the suffering and just go to the afterlife? The common apologist answer that we gain "spiritual knowledge"(whatever that is) through living to prepare us for the afterlife is inadequate, because surely God could create us with that knowledge without forcing us to suffer. Either God is sadistic and enjoys watching us suffer, is not all-powerful due to his inability to create us with whatever we gain from suffering, or he flat-out doesn't exist. Given there is no evidence, guess which one is the most plausible?

[Brian37]

Hi there C&S, welcome to the forum

I'm very sorry for what you're going through. You've done extremely well to get to the questioning stage at such a young age. So many people don't manage it in their whole lives. They die still believing in utter nonsense.

It's all nonsense garbage, the lot of it. There is no good answer to your question. You're right, an all knowing God would know exactly what we're all going to do and who is going to hell for it. It is not consistent with free will. Many religious people convince themselves that both are true at once, because they have to have both sides of the contradiction. Sometimes God is all knowing, sometimes we have free will. It's bullshit.

The God storybook characters are a total joke, and the only way anyone believes it in this day and age is through indoctrination, or immersion in the mythology. If you'd never heard of Allah or Muhammad or whatever, you'd have never found out about them on your own. Because they're not real. They exist only in people's minds.

A God who even has a "hell" in the first place is evil. Not much more to say. Now add in that he makes people knowing damn well he's going to put them there, and he's about the most evil creature imaginable. If such a thing is real, it deserves no respect or worship. It deserves contempt and defiance.

Luckily, it's not real. Why do religious zealots always have to act themselves? Why do they have to silence people, to stop their God being offended by insults? Why do they have to do his dirty work for him? Kill for him? Ostracise people for him? Because if they didn't, he wouldn't do fuck all. On some level, they must know this, or else they wouldn't feel the need to constantly meddle in the affairs of others and they'd trust he would sort it out himself.

So welcome, tentatively, to reality You're almost there. Feel free to ask any more questions. I have some links on my website here to many excellent atheist materials, some of which make the point by satire, some in serious ways. Hopefully they will help you think it all through.

Thank you four the link.

To be honest after finding that fundamentals flaw it feels like I been looking at my religion from a whole other perspective.

Especially that part of God knowing everything.
So many parts of it when he got angry at prophets like another person said in the forum.

Is there any more fundamental honestly all I really want right now is to fully let go with 100 % certainty.

If it is 80-90% I feel like I am gambling my way to hell.
I hope you guys understand my Ramblin it's hard to put what I am saying in such a eloquent way

Christians have their hell they threaten you with, but you rightfully wouldn't become a Christian if they threatened you.

I think a better explanation as to why is because humans looked up to the sky for god/s and saw land fire and volcanos and caves as dangerous places so they falsely perceived that as the punishment. Here are several concepts of hell throughout human history worldwide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell

http://matthewmeyer.net/blog/2014/03/02/...nese-hell/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yomi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yama_(East_Asia)

Aztec Hell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mictlantecuhtli

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underworld

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Hinduism)

There is no underworld or hell. Humans throughout history all over the world came up independently with their own ideas of magical rewards and punishment's in the afterlife. There is no deity, or god of any kind and there is no ground punisher to get anyone of an religion. 

That is not to say if you give up on your religion or any religion and accept the reality that you are finite, that you cant enjoy now while you have the time. You can still be good. Leaving religion does not advocate being lawless or being violent to others. It simply means you have accepted the ride ends. You've gone to a movie knowing it ends, but you still go. You go to a sporting event and it ends, but you still go. You read a book knowing it has a last page, but you still read it.

Neither heaven or hell exist. And that's fine. Leaving those superstitions behind frees you up to worry about now and love people now while you are alive.

[robvalue]

I'd consider this life to be a whole lot less meaningful if it was just some stupid test from some bored layabout deity.

When you realise this is (probably) all you're going to get, you've got much more incentive to make the most of it rather than coast through it.

[Brian37]

I'd consider this life to be a whole lot less meaningful if it was just some stupid test from some bored layabout deity.

When you realise this is (probably) all you're going to get, you've got much more incentive to make the most of it rather than coast through it.

I don't like it put like this. Most people if lucky can keep food on the table and a roof over their heads and work for others. Life certainly is what you make it, and certainly the more educated a society is the more stable it is. 

But just like only one sperm gets the egg, the math just isn't there for everyone to be on top. I think it is ok to try to do what you want, because if you get to do what you love, then it isn't really work. I hate the term "hard work", the way it is sold now has nothing to do with productivity, but a code word the top use to convince you to chase utopias.

The world has enough rich people, what we need is less poverty and more global stability. If life is not a script and we all different, then what living life to me is simply being happy, a more educated happy yes, but happy no matter where you end up.