Nudity, Is It Sexist In This Forum?

[bennyboy]

You're quoting a rule which was changed after I made the post, and if you don't like "kiss my butt" perhaps kiss my ass will suit you better?

And yet you allow the content to stand. There is currently content on this thread which violates the forum rules, and I think it would be worth taking a minute to remove it, just so people won't get the wrong idea.

I don't have to defend myself to you and I won't bother to. You posted images of naked little girls showing their entire bodies from the front. That is completely inappropriate and made worse by the fact that they are not your children to show. You have no business blaming that on me it was a clear rule violation and it had nothing to do with me or my post.

The American government don't think it's inappropriate, and neither do the nudist parents who allowed their children to be photographed. Do you not see the double standard here? Many people think breasts are intrinsically sexual, and therefore inappropriate. . . and that's what this thread is about! I have never posted pictures of nude kids, but I was trying to demonstrate to you that non-sexual nudity CAN be considered inappropriate, even if it's legal. So legally speaking, you've got nothing. You banned me for breaking the rules, and you currently have content displayed in this thread which breaks the rules. So pretty please, why don't you remove the breast-revealing content (it's on page 26 or so I believe), as well as my recent quote of that, and I think we should be good to go.

As for the last paragraph, if you really think it's that important feel free to read through the entire thread. It has already been addressed multiple times.

It's important that words mean what they mean. A female-only application of a rule is intrinsically sexist. I didn't say it's wrong, but we'll never move forward in our examination of ideas and the rules that come from them if we won't acknowledge reality. But let me ask you this-- is it really so important to this forum's function that we COULDN'T just make a carpet ban on all top-torso nudity, including men? Our our lives so enriched by half-naked men that we have to fight to keep that content available? Is anyone going to wake up in a cold sweat and scream, "Noooooooo. . . No man-nipples on atheistforums! How will I go on living my life?"

By the way, given that breast images are NOT illegal, and that no philosophical argument can be made that they are immoral, I think the motion to formally ban them really shows that this forum is wayyyyy behind the times, morally speaking. Nobody cares about breasts except middle-aged Victorians. Since they are not actually illegal, why not just free the breasts. Embrace them, even!

[Losty]

I still don't consider it a rule violation. The national geographics one maybe, but the first 2 are absolutely not rule violations.

[Losty]

Benny, I have said it a hundred times and I will say it again. It is sexist. It was sexist before and now it is even more sexist. I don't intend to advocate for a ban of topless men on this forum and you are welcome to consider me personally sexist, but I will not agree that I am.

[Losty]

"And you agreed with me so strongly that you banned me, right?"

Yes, and so strongly that we changed the rules just for you. Way to go. I hope you're proud of yourself for proving to us something that we already knew.

[bennyboy]

--edit--

By the way, thanks to Losty and to SteelCurtain for not just face-slapping and banning me.  I couldn't disagree with you guys more about the issue of this thread, but I respect the restraint and respect for free speech that your responses imply.

I take issue with you blaming me for what you posted when I know you are smart enough to know that would not be ok. I have no issue with you disagreeing or doing so in a way that I might find offensive. Feel free to share your opinion and feel free to do so (within the rules) however rudely you please. I don't mind at all. And ps. I'm glad you're back

See, you're wrong.  I have never posted images of children before, but you said the forum allows nudity so long as it isn't sexual.  So I posted a non-sexual image, and got banned.  If you hadn't said that, I would have assumed that no nudity was allowed in the open forums at all. To me, there was absolutely nothing wrong with answering what you said (and posted) with what I said (and posted), and I think it made an effective point. Context matters.

You can choose not to believe, me, but if you go back and look at how the thread developed, and the fact that I've never posted such images except in a direct response to what you had just said, it's pretty obvious that's how it went down.

See, I've heard a lot of "Holy fuck.  It's kiiiiiiiiiiiiids!!!!!!!"  And I keep thinking, "So what?"  There's nothing in my moral system that sexualizes children, and your post specificed that non-sexual nudes were allowable.  So I posted some non-sexual nudes, and got a huge ban.

How about a warning?  How about some benefit of the doubt.  Nah. . . in this case, actual communication and mutual respect wasn't important, because "It's fucking kiiiiiids."  How about "It's fucking breassssssssts!" or for our muslim friends, "It's a fucking faaaaaaaaace!" Saying things in a shocked tone doesn't make them more legal or more philosophically correct, and none of you EVER have given any philosophical (or viaable pragmatic) reason why nude children should be considered sexual objects.

Just because you personally are hypersensitive about a particular issue or rule shouldn't mean that I face stiffer penalties than anyone else.  The fact is I did nothing illegal or immoral, but it offends you (and a few others) personally, and you fucking ran over me like a 10-ton truck.  I have feelings too, and have always abided by the rules, and had the rules been explained, I would have happily deleted my post and moved on with my life.  How does preventing me from either explaining myself, or apologizing, benefit anything or anyone?

That was a shitty thing to do, and while you can justify it to yourself and each other, I'm a person too, and I don't appreciate being treated like a perv or an outsider just because I don't have the same moral views as you.  So much for community-- I guess I'm just a visitor here.

[Losty]

I said "non-sexual nudity is allowed" you are correct and I post some examples of non-sexual nudity thinking that you were capable of reading the rules for yourself and understanding exactly what that meant. And you were. So no, I will not take the blame for your rule violation.

[Losty]

Also, feel free to not tell me what I personally am hypersensitive about. I have plenty of naked pictures of my own kids. I wont be posting them on the Internet but I do have them.

[bennyboy]

I said "non-sexual nudity is allowed" you are correct and I post some examples of non-sexual nudity thinking that you were capable of reading the rules for yourself and understanding exactly what that meant. And you were. So no, I will not take the blame for your rule violation.

Still wrong.  You, a mod, said non-sexual nudity was allowed.  I posted LEGAL, MORAL, NON-SEXUAL material, not knowing that you guys have (for reasons I STILL don't understand) decided to sexualize child nudity.  All you had to do was say. . . "Hey, that's not what I meant, you can't post that!"  And I would have said, "Ooops, my bad, let me delete it."  Still no ban required, still a shitty thing to do.

Let me ask you. . . do you insta-ban everyone who violates any rule?  No, of course not.  YOU felt that the severity of my rule-breaking was so dire that I had to be made an example of, and right quick, too-- no chance even to defend myself.

Again, expecting people to see the world as you do, and punishing them for not doing so, is unfair.  You should expect people to follow the LETTER of your posts, not your secret world-view-intention.

Seriously.  Why didn't you just say, "Hey, how could you think that's appropriate?  Don't post that."  I would have said, "I don't think it's inappropriate, but okay I won't post it anymore."

What was the supposed benefit of formally punishing me in that context? I think you projected your own sexual hang-ups and issues onto me, and made an emotional decision when a more measured response would have been sufficient. Not cool.

[Losty]

I said "non-sexual nudity is allowed" you are correct and I post some examples of non-sexual nudity thinking that you were capable of reading the rules for yourself and understanding exactly what that meant. And you were. So no, I will not take the blame for your rule violation.

Still wrong.  You, a mod, said non-sexual nudity was allowed.  I posted LEGAL, MORAL, NON-SEXUAL material, not knowing that you guys have (for reasons I STILL don't understand) decided to sexualize child nudity.  All you had to do was say. . . "Hey, that's not what I meant, you can't post that!"  And I would have said, "Ooops, my bad, let me delete it."  Still no ban required, still a shitty thing to do.

Let me ask you. . . do you insta-ban everyone who violates any rule?  No, of course not.  YOU felt that the severity of my rule-breaking was so dire that I had to be made an example of, and right quick, too-- no chance even to defend myself.

Again, expecting people to see the world as you do, and punishing them for not doing so, is unfair.  You should expect people to follow the LETTER of your posts, not your secret world-view-intention.

Seriously.  Why didn't you just say, "Hey, how could you think that's appropriate?  Don't post that."  I would have said, "I don't think it's inappropriate, but okay I won't post it anymore."

What was the supposed benefit of formally punishing me in that context?

Dude I don't make the decisions. I'm just a single vote in a sea of mods. We took the action we felt was most appropriate considering the circumstances. I'm not going to keep arguing with you. Feel free to blame me. As far as I'm concerned you knowingly and intentionally broke the rules in order to prove a point and are now disingenuously blaming me to try to prove some other point. On both accounts I think you're being a jerk. And on neither account will I take the blame for your actions.

[Cyberman]

You showed female breasts.  You have violated the sexual content rules of this forum.  There's no way to argue against this clear fact.

There is currently content on this thread which violates the forum rules, and I think it would be worth taking a minute to remove it, just so people won't get the wrong idea.

Then report it.

I'm going to get that engraved on my tombstone.