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January 26, 2017 at 10:36 am (This post was last modified: January 26, 2017 at 10:37 am by WinterHold.)
op:
Saudi Arabia is the green ISIS. The terrorists of 9/11 were mostly Saudies. Saudi Arabia beheads people publicly, and even prevents women from driving.
Women are not happy in the kingdom; actually they are thrown in jail if they drive:
What is in the media about the kingdom is true. It's not a "oh wow; a secret !"..btw the whole world knows what KSA is.
How could you miss these videos? I mean aren't you so close to KSA? women are finally revolting
It's a living hell for foreign workers too; omg the racism, the famous infamous racism of Saudie culture and norms, you should know that; aren't you in the UAE? the UAE is full of Saudies; you should know the guys coming horny like they never saw women in their lives; drinking alcohol like thirsty maniacs, and acting like freaks who never saw the female breed before:
The only women who are happy are the royalty; forcing men to kiss their feet and all:
Looks like you don't exactly know what the media actually says; and TBH most criticism comes from activists; not journalists.
Racism between the tribes living in it; sexism against women; then racism again against foreigners; then religious madness and fanaticism. Even Mecca got soaked in blood because of them.
Saudi Arabia is a hellish pit and everybody knows it. It's a death sentence full of cash. It is ISIS with Trillions of oil money.
Women are not happy in Saudi Arabia.
Women want rights. They want to drive; to vote; to wear what they want. Live like other humans and get rid of the stink that engulfed them for too long.
And they will.
And I should note again, that ISIS's religious beliefs are exactly the same as the Sauds; just notice the flag and the beheading.
Women have no rights in the kingdom. It's Wahhabism into action.
Quote:I hate the fact that they call themselves muslim and that the media calls them muslims
They call themselves Muslims because Wahhabism -which is a Saudi Arabian production- is the religion they practice.
Quote:. They have nothing to do with the religion of Islam and cannot say they are killing in the name of Allah because in the quran it says:
But they have everything to do with Wahhabism.
And Wahhabism -with the help of Saudi money- claimed to be the only true Islam.
They are saying that they kill for God; they even support the killings with verses from the Quran.
They can; and they're saying it all the time. Just like Saudi Arabia said it before them.
The benefit of the doubt is considring you "not aware" about whet Saudi Arabia is (and that's why you defend it); and that would put you in a tight spot; like why jump to defend them before reading the news?
The doubt though; is kept for myself.
Quote:1. In the Quran it says believers include the people of the book (Muslims, Jews and Christians), and ISIS kills those.
No. The Quran actually defines a believer as:
Sura 2 ( 135 ) They say, "Be Jews or Christians [so] you will be guided." Say, "Rather, [we follow] the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth, and he was not of the polytheists."
ISIS kills Muslims before non-Muslims. Iraq and Syria are my examples.
Quote:2. You should not kill anyone for any reason (except if they killed someone of your family purposely, but if you forgive that person it is better and Allah will forgive your bad deeds more easily)
No; a part of that sentence is not correct. a 'killer' is punished by being put to death; a soul for a soul. The identity of the victim doesn't matter; all what matters is the act of killing, and the why.
The verse concerning the sentence is here:
Sura 16 ( 126 ) And if you punish , punish with an equivalent of that with which you were harmed. But if you are patient - it is better for those who are patient.
This is the verse that is the base.
Remember: if a person killed your whole family; don't go kill his! only he deserves to be punished; the same way he punished your family.
Could you please tell me, why you said that the victim must be "a member of my family"? The verse didn't say that; the whole Quran didn't say that; but can you lecture me and the others about this fact?
Quote:The muslims that support ISIS have been brainwashed by Hadith. I personally do not believe in the Hadith because in the Quran it states that the Quran is the complete religion, meaning that there must not be any extra books about what to do and what not.
No. Most got messed up because of the actions of countries like Saudi Arabia and Syria.
And you know what the worst part is AtlasS33? All these Wahaabi noobs they have on places like PEACE TV and Guide Us TV they will happily criticize the "immoral Kuffar", but they never criticize the Saudis. They do, as you would say, word gymnastics for their paymasters and gently remind us of how nicely the Saudis treat the women of the Ummah. Let's be clear, if you're not from the Ummah then the Saudis, secretly or otherwise, hate you.
Also, on the four wives thing I sent this ti Catholic_Lady via private message but I thought others might like to know:
Quran 4:3 Wrote:If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
My study Quran indicated polygamy was more excessive in Jahiliyyah (before Muhammad time) and the Quran is actually actually more restrictive then the polygamy that came before it, and comes with the (obvious?) caveat that if you can't treat all wives equally one have one. Muhammad actually had thirteen wives over the course of his life. Also, I can't be bothered to find it now, there is some text (in the Hadith) where one of his wives, Aisha, comments on how eager Allah is to please Muhammad.
Here is some commentary on Quran 4:3 (this is not from the study Quran but from a man who lived many hundreds of years ago):
Al-Jalalayn wrote Wrote:If you fear that you will not act justly, [that] you will [not] be equitable, towards the orphans, and are thus distressed in this matter, then also fear lest you be unjust towards women when you marry them; marry such (mā means man) women as seem good to you, two or three or four, that is, [each man may marry] two, or three, or four, but do not exceed this; but if you fear you will not be equitable, towards them in terms of [their] expenses and [individual] share; then, marry, only one, or, restrict yourself to, what your right hands own, of slavegirls, since these do not have the same rights as wives; thus, by that marrying of only four, or only one, or resorting to slavegirls, it is likelier, it is nearer [in outcome], that you will not be unjust, [that] you will [not] be inequitable.
(January 26, 2017 at 2:39 pm)PETE_ROSE Wrote: How do you reconcile Christ and his declarations of who He is in the New Testament, with how Islam represents Him as merely a minor prophet?
That's easy. They don't believe that particular brand of bullshit any more than we do.
I'd like to know your opinion about the next fact.
Excuse me by advance to explain the meaning of words that I'll use.
I'll do it for those who doesn't know these words.
I will share with you a verse of koran. In Arabic a verse is called ʾāya (Arabic : آية) and the plural is ʾāyāt (Arabic : آيات).
The literal translation of this therm is sign.
In Arabic the Qur'an is named القرآن and this word means "recitation".
Each chapter of Quran is named sūra (Arabic : سورة) and the plural is sūrāt (Arabic : سورات) .
Now , I will quote the ayha n°14 in the 23th sūra on 114 named al-mūminīn (Arabic : المؤمنين) or the believers in English.
1.Translation by Maulana Muhammad Ali :Then We make the life-germ a clot, then We make the clot a lump of flesh, then We make (in) the lump of flesh bones, then We clothe the bones with flesh, then We cause it to grow into another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators.
2.Translation by progressive muslims organization : Then We created the seed into an embryo, then We created the embryo into a fetus, then We created the fetus into bone, then We covered the bone with flesh, then We brought forth a new creation. So glory be to God, the best of creators.
3.Translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali :Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!
We can see a lot of mistakes but my favourite is the next : In this ayha it's write that bones appear before flesh but this is false.
NOTES :
Translators are from different branches of Islam. It's better to share translations from people / groups who haven't the same Islamic domination in order to compare.
January 27, 2017 at 2:00 am (This post was last modified: January 27, 2017 at 2:01 am by Astonished.)
(January 24, 2017 at 2:27 pm)brostergaming Wrote: Hello people of this forum,
I myself am muslim and am here if you would like to ask a muslim a question. Don't hesitate
You can post a comment or pm me
Is there anything I could possibly say to you or do to your holy book or any holy artifacts that would motivate you to bring harm to me in any way, shape or form, and if not, why? Your book says you should chop my head off for the slightest blasphemy.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?
---
There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
(January 24, 2017 at 3:56 pm)ReptilianPeon Wrote: You know, brostergaming, Quran 5:32 has some missing parts which you didn't quote:
On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.
I could check it in my study Quran if you like? Al-Jalalayn is good, yes? This is what the Tafisr of 5:32 says:
Al-Jalalayn Wrote:Because of that, which Cain did, We decreed for the Children of Israel that whoever slays a soul for other than a soul, slain, or for, other than, corruption, committed, in the land, in the way of unbelief, fornication or waylaying and the like, it shall be as if he had slain mankind altogether; and whoever saves the life of one, by refraining from slaying, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind — Ibn ‘Abbās said [that the above is meant] in the sense of violating and protecting its [a soul’s] sanctity [respectively]. Our messengers have already come to them, that is, to the Children of Israel, with clear proofs, miracles, but after that many of them still commit excesses in the land, overstepping the bounds through disbelief, killing and the like.
The verse doesn't apply for everyone. Only the Children of Israel (e.g. Jews). I think you're taking verse 5:32 out of its historical context.
In Sura 16; though:
( 126 ) And if you punish [an enemy, O believers], punish with an equivalent of that with which you were harmed. But if you are patient - it is better for those who are patient.
Also; Muslims are supposed to believe in what was revealed before them; according to this verse:
Sura 4 ( 136 ) O you who have believed, believe in Allah and His Messenger and the Book that He sent down upon His Messenger and the Scripture which He sent down before. And whoever disbelieves in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, and the Last Day has certainly gone far astray.
It is expressed again in a very explicit way in Sura 5, verses 44 to 48.
Catholic_Lady
Quote:What is the theology behind it being moral for men to have multiple wives but not for women to have multiple husbands? Always been curious about this one lol. Asked my muslim friend and he had no clue.
Men are obligated to sponsor women economically but women aren't; the famous "beating" verse states it:
Sura 4 ( 34 ) Men are standing with God's rights over women by what Allah has favored one over the other with and what they spend from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in absence what Allah would have them guard. But those from whom you fear rebellion advise them; , forsake them in bed; and beat them. But if they obey you , seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.
Just as a side note. I never copy this verse without the "side note".
Men are obligated to carry on the duties that God ordered them to do with women.
These rights are a duty men must do, since God had gifted them over women with things like physical power and money.
In case the wife revolted, then it depends on the revolt itself. If she talked then the husband should talk; if she abandoned the husband in bedt should abandon her in bed; if she starts to beat him he should do the same.
A more general verse is the eye-for an eye.
The "4 wives" verse is a single verse in Sura 4: Sura 4 ( 2 ) And give to the orphans their properties and do not substitute the defective [of your own] for the good [of theirs]. And do not consume their properties into your own. Indeed, that is ever a great sin.I( 3 ) And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphans, then marry those that please you of women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice].
If somebody can't be just to orphans, then they are allowed to marry up to 4 women instead
It's not a right for Muslim men to do it; they are 'only allowed to do so if they fear being unjust to orphans'.
The word "then" in the third verse makes a very big difference.
Joining these 2 with verse 34, will show how being a husband is more of a burden than a favor; men have to spend and do a list of religious obligations towards women.
Women are not obligated to do that; though.
ReptileanPeon
Quote:And you know what the worst part is AtlasS33? All these Wahaabi noobs they have on places like PEACE TV and Guide Us TV they will happily criticize the "immoral Kuffar", but they never criticize the Saudis. They do, as you would say, word gymnastics for their paymasters and gently remind us of how nicely the Saudis treat the women of the Ummah. Let's be clear, if you're not from the Ummah then the Saudis, secretly or otherwise, hate you.
"Muslim" is a pretty broad term. There are Muslims who will threaten to kill you if you draw Muhammad. There are Muslims who WILL kill you if you draw Muhammad. There are more moderate Muslims with full beards to don't care if you don't have a full beard. There are Muslims in America who dress like any other American. There are Muslims who freak out when you ask for bacon in a halal KFC and Muslims who will explain that you can't get bacon on a halal KFC, politely and with a smile. There are ass kicking Muslims (in a bad way) like Osama Bin Laden and there are kick-ass Muslims like Aasif Mandvi. Like Christianity, there are a lot of different Muslim beliefs. The fact that you are a Muslim means nothing to me. I like Aasif Mandvi. I don't care what his religion is. I don't like Osama Bin Laden because of his religious beliefs, but it really has very little to do with him being a Muslim, it was his radical beliefs and actions I took exception to, beliefs most Muslims don't hold and actions most Muslims don't take.
So what kind of Muslim are you? Will you kill me if I insult Islam? Unlikely. Will you threaten it? I doubt it. Do you believe it is an acceptable response? I doubt that as well, but we're at least getting statistically more likely. It's easier to believe a thing is okay than to actually do that thing, after all. If you don't think violence is the appropriate response to someone disagreeing with you, even if they are insulting about it, I don't really have any questions for you. I also have no particular desire to convert you to atheism. I only take exception to religious zealots who try to impose their beliefs on me in some way, or, to a lesser extent, those who insist that they can prove their beliefs are true. You really don't strike me as "one of those Muslims", so I don't have a problem with you or your beliefs, if that's what you're thinking.
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