Was Muhammad a Pedophile?

[Cinjin]

I didn't remove it, however the currently active mods have reached a concensus, and I'd be happy to step into the line of fire if it gets you guys back to sharing ideas rather than slapping each other. I am also quite aware that the community percieves me as counter to their stance generally, despite all the behind the scenes advocation I do. I'm quite comfortable with that as well.

I partially agree with you tack. The problem on this thread (I think) is two-fold.

First, the nature of these forums is a little looser and thus a little more aggressive. And everybody's gotten use to that. So the blows exchanged don't necessarily feel as harsh to the persons involved as they may appear to the reader. (Just yesterday, Frodo called me a douchebag and a girl ... but that's alright by me. I'd rather the forums allow him the freedom to do that, than take away my option to do it. Quite frankly, it makes for a much more interesting format, and people you don't respect can't truly hurt you anyway.)

Secondly, on this thread specifically, the idea that the two Muslims are sharing is repugnant. We're talking about endorsed child molestation being justified by a religion. If a Catholic said this exact same thing to us - we'd throw his ass in prison. That racist that showed up here a couple days ago was handed his ass on a plate because his ideas were unacceptable no matter how he attempted to justify his actions.

I think child molestation protected under the guise of ancient religion is repulsive and warrants just such a reaction. I realize that my opinion doesn't mean shit here, but I think Skipper should be allowed to protest as loudly as he wants about the utterly ridiculous defenses stated involving sex with a 9 year old girl. She's not a minor of 16, that MIGHT actually be somewhat understandable. Nine Year olds ... I think not.

Your thoughts?

[Rayaan]

Well I sure haven't been aggressive nor made any personal attacks to anyone (which I never did in this forum so far) although some of my beliefs may seem repugnant to others.

If the mods reach a consensus to remove something, then it's alright, because it's their job to try to maintain civility between the members. But, Skipper may post again in a more composed manner if he wants to (whatever that he said before). I don't have a problem.

[reverendjeremiah]

I didn't remove it, however the currently active mods have reached a concensus, and I'd be happy to step into the line of fire if it gets you guys back to sharing ideas rather than slapping each other. I am also quite aware that the community percieves me as counter to their stance generally, despite all the behind the scenes advocation I do. I'm quite comfortable with that as well.

I must admit, at first I wasnt sure about you being a mod, but as time has gone by I have found myself pretty much agreeing with your decisions.

[fr0d0]

I think child molestation protected under the guise of ancient religion is repulsive and warrants just such a reaction. I realize that my opinion doesn't mean shit here, but I think Skipper should be allowed to protest as loudly as he wants about the utterly ridiculous defenses stated involving sex with a 9 year old girl. She's not a minor of 16, that MIGHT actually be somewhat understandable. Nine Year olds ... I think not.

Where does anyone suggest that child molestation is protected under ancient religion? We're talking about a particular secular morality that is even current in some parts of the world. You might not accept it, just like people from that culture can't understand your tolerance of pornography yet think their own practice to be humane. Who are you to tell them what's fair and what's not?

If we're talking bigotry here I see people trying to impose their CULTURE onto someone else.

[Violet]

I didn't remove it, however the currently active mods have reached a concensus, and I'd be happy to step into the line of fire if it gets you guys back to sharing ideas rather than slapping each other. I am also quite aware that the community percieves me as counter to their stance generally, despite all the behind the scenes advocation I do. I'm quite comfortable with that as well.

I wouldn't hate you for it this time, as nobody takes my posts seriously anyway

Pedophilia still isn't a bad thing at all

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Secondly, on this thread specifically, the idea that the two Muslims are sharing is repugnant. We're talking about endorsed child molestation being justified by a religion. If a Catholic said this exact same thing to us - we'd throw his ass in prison. That racist that showed up here a couple days ago was handed his ass on a plate because his ideas were unacceptable no matter how he attempted to justify his actions.

Tact is important, as it turns out. He didn't have it, and so was sent down into the gauntlet. (I don't think he's been banned yet, but I haven't paid much attention... i do love the gauntlet feature though )

The comment about there having been no black african civilizations was rather amusing, I thought (though quite untrue).

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First, the nature of these forums is a little looser and thus a little more aggressive. And everybody's gotten use to that. So the blows exchanged don't necessarily feel as harsh to the persons involved as they may appear to the reader. (Just yesterday, Frodo called me a douchebag and a girl ... but that's alright by me. I'd rather the forums allow him the freedom to do that, than take away my option to do it. Quite frankly, it makes for a much more interesting format, and people you don't respect can't truly hurt you anyway.)

Douchebag is not an insult, and girls rule the world... so I'd say he gave you 2 compliments in a row

Everything in matter of degrees though... I'm racist towards just about everyone, but I don't go ahead and make 5 threads with absolutely serious nature about only one of them in a short span of time. A few insults here and there is nothing, a post laden with insults is simply not worth its existence.

Cheer up everyone!

[Rayaan]

Everything in matter of degrees though... I'm racist towards just about everyone, but I don't go ahead and make 5 threads with absolutely serious nature about only one of them in a short span of time. A few insults here and there is nothing, a post laden with insults is simply not worth its existence.

True say. Although I don't think that the words "douchebag" and "girl" are compliments.

[Cinjin]

I think child molestation protected under the guise of ancient religion is repulsive and warrants just such a reaction. I realize that my opinion doesn't mean shit here, but I think Skipper should be allowed to protest as loudly as he wants about the utterly ridiculous defenses stated involving sex with a 9 year old girl. She's not a minor of 16, that MIGHT actually be somewhat understandable. Nine Year olds ... I think not.

Where does anyone suggest that child molestation is protected under ancient religion? We're talking about a particular secular morality that is even current in some parts of the world. You might not accept it, just like people from that culture can't understand your tolerance of pornography yet think their own practice to be humane. Who are you to tell them what's fair and what's not?

If we're talking bigotry here I see people trying to impose their CULTURE onto someone else.

Legal pornography is between adults. Apples and oranges there.

We're not forcing our culture on someone else at all. We are attempting to make Rayaan see the error in his own religion. You see, regardless of a culture's right to do things their own way - a line still has to be drawn. You can't commit crimes against humanity and than turn around and say, "hey that's our culture, that's just the way we do things." That's a cop out, and a poor one at that. Their religion states that they can cut off people's hands and kill people by means of stoning for offenses that don't come close to warranting that. I don't support those actions either, and I lump sex with a child in with these cultural morals you say we should be ignoring.
You imply that I'm an arrogant SOB who is trying to force my culture on someone else. That is not accurate at all, but that's fine with me. If I'm going to make an error regarding intolerance - I'm going to error on the side of basic human decency.

Any book ... I don't care if it's 2000 years old or written in the year 2000. If it considers a 50 year old man having sex with a NINE YEAR OLD as a beautiful thing that should be honored and remembered - than it's worthy of condemnation .... cultural or not!

[Violet]

Legal pornography is between adults. Apples and oranges there.

Because legality obviously isn't firmly rooted within what is culturally acceptable, and adult cows are obviously a majority of the pornography generated?

We're not forcing our culture on someone else at all. We are attempting to make Rayaan see the error in his own religion. You see, regardless of a culture's right to do things their own way - a line still has to be drawn. You can't commit crimes against humanity and than turn around and say, "hey that's our culture, that's just the way we do things." That's a cop out, and a poor one at that. Their religion states that they can cut off people's hands and kill people by means of stoning for offenses that don't come close to warranting that. I don't support those actions either, and I lump sex with a child in with these cultural morals you say we should be ignoring.
You imply that I'm an arrogant SOB who is trying to force my culture on someone else. That is not accurate at all, but that's fine with me. If I'm going to make an error regarding intolerance - I'm going to error on the side of basic human decency.

Several american wars tell me otherwise... and this is no different. You perceive this as an error because you see it differently. Morals are not like math... they are not consistent, and they are not constant, and they need not be logical. It turns out that their culture dominates their laws, and so that is infact the way they do things. Our culture dominates our laws, and so such things are not legal here. You call it a 'cop out'... pretending that your american stance is anything greater than their stance, because it is yours, of course.

You don't think the offenses warrant death and the severing of a limb... but they obviously do. In your country, you go ahead and ignore their cultural morals... your laws are the result of your own after all. In their country, their laws rules, and their laws are the result of their culture.

You might be an arrogant SOB... I know I am But you are forcing your culture upon this issue, whether you are trying to or not. This 'basic human decency' is an illusion held by those that do not perceive the depths of depravity as a normal and probably common state. Godamn hippies

Any book ... I don't care if it's 2000 years old or written in the year 2000. If it considers a 50 year old man having sex with a NINE YEAR OLD as a beautiful thing that should be honored and remembered - than it's worthy of condemnation .... cultural or not!

Entirely cultural, infact. Worthy of your condemnation, worthy of someone else's respect, worthy of my amusement.

[Cinjin]

@Aerzia Saerules Arktuos

You see what you want to see Sae. You're really the LAST person on earth, even after Frodo and Rayaan that I would use as a judge of guidelines for morality. (and I mean DEAD LAST)

When it comes to morals and right and wrong - I seriously think that even Rayaan and I would share more common ground in what is and is not basic human decency.

[Rayaan]

Any book ... I don't care if it's 2000 years old or written in the year 2000. If it considers a 50 year old man having sex with a NINE YEAR OLD as a beautiful thing that should be honored and remembered - than it's worthy of condemnation .... cultural or not!

Well, the Quran is actually silent on this. Nowhere does it honor or say that it's a good thing for a 50 year old to marry a 9-year-old. This was a part of cultural custom, I believe.