Pat gets mad

[Judas BentHer]

Where would be an acceptable distance then? If not 2 blocks away, is 3 enough? Or are Muslims not allowed to worship in New York city ever again because of the actions of people completely out of their control? You can guarantee that there are enough idiots in new York city to oppose / make a fuss of any location within the city borders.

Oh my, it's tragic how out of touch you are.
Here let me explain it in a way your prejudice will comprehend.

MUSLIMS

HAVE

OVER

100 MOSQUES

IN

NYC RIGHT NOW!

ONE MOSQUE

HAS BEEN ACTIVE IN NYC SINCE THE 1960'S

AND IS BUT 6 BLOCKS AWAY FROM GROUND ZERO!


AND GUESS WHAT?

NOW PAY ATTENTION HERE. OPEN YOUR EYES PAST YOUR PREJUDICE TOWARD AMERICA....

MUSLIMS ARE STILL WORSHIPING IN NYC!
AMAZING! But only to you, obviously.

The Imam in the Ground Zero/Park51/Cordoba Project took up residence in the former Burlington Coat Factory and now he thinks that entails him having the right to turn it into the largest Mosque in America.

How about Mecca? If you imagine we're suppose to tolerate a Mosque two blocks away from the spot where terrorist Muslims slaughtered thousands, at a site where debris that included PEOPLE fell, how about advocating compromise and tolerance in Mecca? How about a Christian church, a Catholic one, being constructed two blocks from the Ka'ba! How about at the same time construction begin on a Jewish Synagogue in Saudi Arabia two blocks from King Abdullah Bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud's palace in Riyadh!

When Muslims and Muslim sympathizers think Americans should swallow their pain, and tolerate a Mosque being constructed 80 feet from where the worst terrorist attack in American history took place, the counter question then becomes, why would compassion and peace expect to construct a Mosque projected to rise 13 stories high two blocks from a tomb manifest by terror, intolerance and psychopathy? When it will not inspire community and interfaith dialog for taking such liberties, but instead will stand as a veritable keystone reminder of why the two largest buildings in the world are now disappeared,while the largest Mosque in America reigns supreme.

Besides, as has been reported already but that too obviously escaped your notice because you're too focused on playing the poor repressed misunderstood Muslims victim card, the Ground Zero Mosque has the green light! It's going to be built! That's what compassion does. It erects a reminder as to what helped inspire the fall of two towers and the loss of thousands of lives, 80 feet from it's doorstep. That edifice that might as well have a scrolling banner running across it's top, as is intended. "WE'RE HERE! AND THEY'RE NOT!" But it's early yet. It could happen. Yet, even without that, the message is still there.

When Muslims have worshiped in NYC in nearly 140 Mosques for years! Why do they need the largest Mosque to be built in America 2 stories from the worst terrorist attack by Muslim extremists, in the history of the country?

Oh yes, that's right, that's a question we're not suppose to ask because it's just wrong! We're America and we're suppose to tolerate everything no matter what it's implications, else we'll be free to be called any number of names by those who think freedom of religion does not mean we're to be free from the religious zealots who think they have every right to dismiss the rights of others not to have a terrorist act shoved in their face every time they walk by the Mosque that houses the faith that inspired the felling of twin towers but 80 feet in walking distance from it's front door.

No surprise really, that double standard. Religion of peace demanding tolerance for anything it proposes doesn't even tolerate it's own women to worship amid Muslim men! Full on sex discrimination before the eyes of Allah and that's religious tradition!
But expect respect for the dead who were slaughtered by extremists representing that religion and it's god by not constructing an edifice dedicated to the causative factor behind the terrorist action 80 feet from where thousands of lives perished and on the spot where building debris and human flesh and bone fell afterward, and that's discrimination!

Religion of peace. (Only when all the world is Muslim and no infidels remain, is it a religion of peace because there are no religions in opposition.) Inspired by compassion. COMMUNITY center!When only a portion of the Ground Zero Mosque/Park51/Cordoba Initiative will be open to the infidel public. So then it's limited in it's tolerance of community.
But then again, all Mosques are Muslim Community Centers, so then that would explain the limits everyone else has fostered upon them, if they choose to enter.
Nothing communicates "Community" like a Mosque that was in operation in the Burlington Coat Factory right after 9-11's debris damage put the store out of business so that it was then occupied by Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf . Now he, who is a radical abroad and a conservative when speaking to the sheep of America, and two Muslim organizations sponsoring blueprints and initiating construction plans that had originally intended to have it's grand opening on the 10th anniversary of September 11th, 2001. Lovely timing! 10 years ago thousands of lives were lost to Muslim terrorists! And today Muslims are opening a shrine to commemorate the anniversary! (Well, those were the plans. Maybe the infidels and Kafir in power who had the right to forbid this construction thought overshooting that date with all the red tape would placate the infidel American public in opposition, so we'd think it was OK to go ahead at least 10 years and a day after 9-11.)

Rational people understand Muslims have never been prohibited from worship in NYC. Not before 9-11 nor after. Rational people know that Muslims were murdered in those buildings and on those 4 planes on 9-11. And to this day everyone of those who perished, thousands of innocent people, are mourned and remembered.

So try to step outside of what may be inferred as racist implications and comprehend the facts instead of playing the victim card as if no one likes Muslims and that's why there are objections to the PROXIMITY of a Mosque 80 feet from ground zero. Especially when infidels are expected to tolerate what Muslims never would!

[Napoléon]

Judas, if I could kudos that 20 times, I would.

[Rayaan]

So yet again we have someone saying "oh pat makes generalisations about islam!" without actually telling us all what they are. If you're going to make out like he does, then prove it. I would genuinely like to see.
By all means Rayaan, post a video where he's made a generalisation, and tell us all with your insider knowledge of Islam why he's making a generalisation. Shouldn't be too hard should it?

In one video, titled "The Trouble with Islam," he said that all the evidence points that Islam is a religion of war, and that it's "holy book urges Muslims to conquer the world and subjugate everyone to the rule of God" (starting from 1:45 in the video), which is not true because there are many evidences to the contrary. He also said that Muhammad was an "ancient desert nomad with a psychological disorder" (as if he really knows him).

I feel that his overall hatred for Islam is unjustified, which is a subjective thing, of course, and thus I'm aware that a person may not share the same view of Islam as I do. But that's okay.

That is, until of course, it interferes with establishing identification and other security related procedures.

Yes, for the sake of identification and security reasons, I think they should take off whatever that they're wearing. It's just for a short time and they are required to do this. However, it is quite rare thing to see a Muslim woman covering her entire face these days (especially in many western countries). And most of them only cover the hair with a hijab, but not the face. But still, either way, I think it's important to adhere to the security codes of a country when necessary.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

As for building a "Ground Zero" mosque, in response to Judas BentHer's post, I agree that it is not a great idea either, but Muslims should be allowed to build a mosque if they are willing to pay for it and operate within the building codes of the city. Unfortunately, I think there's a good chance that the building of the mosque will result in a greater hatred and mockery against the Muslims. Americans will think, "Hey look, now the Muslims are trying to remove their guilt for the 9-11 attacks by building a mosque!"

If it wasn't a safety issue, it wouldn't really matter to build a mosque there. But, I think that Muslims going to that community center will become targets. There might even be protests from Islamophobes, and lots of unrest, and possibly even harm and danger to some lives. But again, I could be wrong because Americans might become more tolerant of the mosque as time goes on. I cannot predict the future.

[Napoléon]

In one video, titled "The Trouble with Islam," he said that all the evidence points that Islam is a religion of war, and that it's "holy book urges Muslims to conquer the world and subjugate everyone to the rule of God" (starting from 1:45 in the video), which is not true because there are many evidences to the contrary. He also said that Muhammad was an "ancient desert nomad with a psychological disorder" (as if he really knows him).

I feel that his overall hatred for Islam is unjustified, which is a subjective thing, of course, and thus I'm aware that a person may not share the same view of Islam as I do. But that's okay.

What, so Islam doesn't want to dominate the world? You don't want to convert everyone? News to me.

Oh and regarding Muhammad, I could come up with a lot worse than what Pat Condell called him, trust me.
Either way you still haven't shown us how Pat Condell is wrong.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

The Imam in the Ground Zero/Park51/Cordoba Project took up residence in the former Burlington Coat Factory and now he thinks that entails him having the right to turn it into the largest Mosque in America

Well um,actually he does have a right as far as I can tell under US law. I agree his attitude is about as arrogant and ignorant as the average proselytising Christian. So What? Be as angry and offended as you like;your feelings do not abrogate any of the Imam's legal/constitutional rights.Perhaps try dealing with it like a grown up instead of a whiny child.

What, so Islam doesn't want to dominate the world? You don't want to convert everyone? News to me.

What? Nappy,that's called "an argument from ignorance",a basic logical fallacy. Specifically ,it was a profoundly ignorant and bigoted thing to say. The kind of sweeping generalisation Condell makes.

I have never seen Rayaan try to convert anyone here,and NOBODY ever tried to convert me when I lived in a Muslim country.. In my experience, most believers of all stripes tend to be too busy making a life too worry about what others believe or do.T

[Judas BentHer]

The Imam in the Ground Zero/Park51/Cordoba Project took up residence in the former Burlington Coat Factory and now he thinks that entails him having the right to turn it into the largest Mosque in America

Well um,actually he does have a right as far as I can tell under US law. I agree his attitude is about as arrogant and ignorant as the average proselytising Christian. So What? Be as angry and offended as you like;your feelings do not abrogate any of the Imam's legal/constitutional rights.Perhaps try dealing with it like a grown up instead of a whiny child.

That's pretty funny. Perhaps if you understood something about American rights and jurisprudence you'd understand that the Imam had no right to the former Burlington Coat Factory property. Just because he's Muslim doesn't give him special rights.

The Imam has the lawful Constitutional right to be Muslim in America, he has the lawful Constitutional right to practice his faith as he likes, within the limits of the law. He has no right to take up residence in the former BCF at 51 Park Place Manhattan NYC, unless he's given permission to do so by the lawful owners, who had formerly leased the site to BCF. And he has no right to buy it unless the lawful owners, ( Stephen Pomerantz and Kukiko Mitani) be they individuals, a corporation or the government of Manhattan New York, New York, who may take possession under certain circumstances, say so.

In America just because you're religious doesn't mean you can occupy a vacant property and claim it in the name of your religion.

Perhaps try learning something like a grown up instead of appearing now as an ignorant foreigner with a hate filled premise supporting a weak opinion that seeks to pander to Islam, while knowing not a thing about American law.






Ah, it's that air of community to generate first impressions that make Park51 something to look forward to.

Park 51 Sues Burlington Coat Factory for Removing Signs
March 21,2011

Read more

[Minimalist]

He also said that Muhammad was an "ancient desert nomad with a psychological disorder" (as if he really knows him).

Sheesh, Rayaan....and you get pissed at me because I said mohammed never existed at all. At least I didn't say he was crazy!

[Judas BentHer]

Well, one could look at it this way.
If Muhammad did exist, given what he related as to his experience in being given what initially was the oral tradition of the Koranic verses, then he was insane and a liar. Because much of what's contained therein is derived from the two Abrahamic faiths that pre-date Islam. (Judaism & Christianity).

If he didn't exist, then all of Islam is a lie orchestrated by who knows who?

Now, having said both of those things, given there are places in this world where Muslims exist who would instantly issue a Fatwah upon me, seek to have my head removed from my body,stab me, shoot me, or otherwise send so many death threats that I'd think to go into hiding in order to save my life, joining a long list of folks from Rushdie in his time and who is still under threat for writing a fiction novel, unto the woman who started the draw Muhammad day cartoon, to the departed Van Gogh who was strangled, shot and stabbed to death for daring to create a movie, using a willing Muslim woman, who dared speak out about her experiences behind the veil, the religion of peace bears Muhammadan sheep who are more than willing to make that slogan about it into one big bloody lie in itself.

So if Muhammad did exist he was a psychopath. And if he didn't the lie that was authored in his name inspires certain Muhammadan sheep to become psychopaths in defense of it because it's all true enough to slaughter people, so as to defend as a fact something that may be a lie worth losing one's life to.

It's like that old adage about the Christians god, which would be the Muslims too, if there's only one god. Semantics, not withstanding. "If god Muhammad did exist, given the behavior of his followers, it would be better for his reputation if he didn't!"




" By ANDREW HIGGINS
MÜNSTER, Germany -- Muhammad Sven Kalisch, a Muslim convert and Germany's first professor of Islamic theology, fasts during the Muslim holy month, doesn't like to shake hands with Muslim women and has spent years studying Islamic scripture. Islam, he says, guides his life.

So it came as something of a surprise when Prof. Kalisch announced the fruit of his theological research. His conclusion: The Prophet Muhammad probably never existed."

Professor Hired for Outreach to Muslims Delivers a Jolt
Islamic Theologian's Theory: It's Likely the Prophet Muhammad Never Existed November 18, 2008 Wall Street Journal FULL ARTICLE

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

In America just because you're religious doesn't mean you can occupy a vacant property and claim it in the name of your religion.

Ah, I was mistaken. I was under the impression the Muslims owned the property. I was not suggesting they have any entitlement to any special treatment. In fact I find the special l privileges often given to religions repugnant.

[KichigaiNeko]

In America just because you're religious doesn't mean you can occupy a vacant property and claim it in the name of your religion.

Ah, I was mistaken. I was under the impression the Muslims owned the property. I was not suggesting they have any entitlement to any special treatment. In fact I find the special l privileges often given to religions repugnant.

Should governments world wide actually TAX the religions of the world I seriously doubt there would BE any 'world debt'