Cucumber Dildo

[Shell B]

Well I currently have thevoid on ignore as he seems to have a rather large chip on his shoulder regarding veganism.

Please change that, Skeptic. It is against forum policy to put any member of staff on ignore. If you don't like his opinion regarding veganism, you can choose not to converse with him, but you cannot put him on ignore.

[Skeptic]

You know, I think I might call it a day.

I've enjoyed talking to several people here, especially in the chat room but of all the forums I've joined I've never found one so aggressive. These aren't the questions of people who are intrigued or curious, these are the questions of people that want to have proven someone else wrong to get some feeling of accomplishment.

I can see this would never end in this thread but be dragged in to others and brought up again and again. It's a shame really but I can think of much better ways of spending my spare time.

If you really want answers to your questions then they're out there, wikipedia has a lot of good information on the subject. As for me, I'm done.

[Shell B]

You know, I think I might call it a day.

Why, because some people don't agree with you? Just because you're a vegan doesn't mean you have to be a wimp.

These aren't the questions of people who are intrigued or curious, these are the questions of people that want to have proven someone else wrong to get some feeling of accomplishment.

That's not true. You're applying maliciousness to something because you are uncomfortable having to face inconsistencies in your lifestyle. It's like someone pointing out a flaw in my writing and me saying, "You're just saying that because you're a meanie." Take is easy and participate in the conversation without taking it personally and you might feel differently. I would hate to see you go over something silly like this.

[theVOID]

Well I currently have thevoid on ignore as he seems to have a rather large chip on his shoulder regarding veganism.

When you've corrected that could you please explain why you think I've got a "large chip" on my shoulder regarding veganism? All I did was point out your double standards, primarily your willingness to use the benefits of animal research while simultaneously condemning it giving the excuse that "the harm has been done".

I don't think what I said or the way I said it was in any way unreasonable, least of all compared to the thrashing Syn gave you.

I am here for discussions but if I have to spend all my time explaining myself in this thread and rebutting questions that are posed to try and catch me out (which I believe many are) rather than getting on with other discussions then it's not exactly an enjoyable environment for me to be in.

You caught yourself out easily enough, and exposing flaws in reasoning, double standards or inconsistencies is one of the most important parts of discussion, far from avoiding "getting on with" it. You might not like being shown that you've got double standards or that your ideas on "minimising suffering" are counter productive but that's what stood out to me.

Bear in mind that I'm just one person fielding questions from many others. It does feel like a quite hostile environment.

That happens often and not just to you, you've only got to search "libertarian" on the forums to find me responding to multiple people on my own.

[The Grand Nudger]

It comes out to about 16lbs of feed corn and silage per lb of beef. If you wish to judge nutritional value in calories alone be my guest. Feed corn isn't exactly nutritious, and silage is inedible. Nice attempt at a gotcha moment though. If beef couldn't be produced efficiently it wouldn't be profitable. I've been ignoring all of the byproducts, and the fact that the waste is used to grow yet more food but if you want to talk physics and perpetual energy, we can do that.

(note that I am actually very much against grain fed beef, but I can defend the industry against those that wish to misrepresent them)

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I feel that it is important to stress to you that I do not disagree with you having an opinion. As you have said, at the end of the day it's your choice. I object to justifying that position with misinformation.

[thesummerqueen]

Just for the record, Skeptic, as I meant to tell you in chat last night before my alcohol induced ADD set in -

A long-time, deep friend of mine is probably going to turn vegan, as his sister has already, purely for health reasons. Both of them are overweight (though his sister has since lost a lot) and diabetes (I keep wanting to say "Dia-beet-us!" like Wilford Brimley) runs heavily in their family. Natala ended up in the hospital and almost lost a foot for not taking care of herself. She immediately switched to a vegan diet and her health is wonderful. She's an outspoken advocate of a vegan lifestyle for those who need to make diet changes for their various illnesses.

It's hard on both of them. They grew up in a NY Italian household. Roman cooks like a dream. But, what can you do?

If you want to be a vegan because of health, that's great. Some people seem to do extraordinarily well on it. I'd even partially agree with you if it were the stance that beef production is harmful to the environment/out of hand. Where I disagree, and where obviously most others do and would like to argue about, is the subjective idea of morality based on things we can't quantify in other animals.

Now, you can beat my ass all to hell for what I'm about to say next, and I'll even get on chat for you to do it, but I just want to say that I agree about you needing to not take things so personally - I've noticed you seem to have a limited or no sense of when someone is being facetious/sarcastic. Void wasn't equating you with someone who would watch child pornography for your choices. He was asking where the line is drawn when harm is committed and people use the product of that harm. What's the distinction? Penn & Teller's show wasn't meant to be purely documentary - they have said from the onset that their show is biased, but fair. Thus far, if I've taken the time to check up on them, they've been accurate. They're also not above correcting themselves if people point out where they're wrong. Your complaint about them making *joking* commentary about people's weight has no bearing on the factual basis of their show. They cannot legally call people liars, but they can ridicule them and hurl various insults. Also, no one goes on a show without signing a waiver, and I do believe their policy is to let people see other episodes. They know what they're getting into. They just think their arguments are air-tight.

No offense, but many vegans or organics-movement people think the same thing, and it's because there's not a whole lot of science behind what they do. It's very much ideology driven. And like anyone with an ideology, we're ready to pick it apart either out of curiosity or because we don't agree with it. That "picking apart" has nothing to do with you personally - you just happen to be the vegan who made your claims or assertions. You get the limelight this time.

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Just to add to the Penn & Teller bit, they've said on the show that a common phrase they tout is "Everybody got a gris-gris." Different staff members to the show have begged off doing various episodes because they have a vested interest in the subject in particular and want no part in ridiculing it, and they've been allowed to do so.

No one here is going to condemn you for holding onto veganism if that happens to be your gris-gris. Hell, we allow theists on here, yeah? That's about the biggest gris-gris you can have.

[HeyItsZeus]

Man, this thread was supposed to be about vegetable porn... you people are too serious.

[thesummerqueen]

Oh. You'll have to talk to Rhythm about that one. My specialty is flowers.

[The Grand Nudger]

You're right, I wholeheartedly apologize. Mea Culpa. Do a google search for "Vegetable-pornography-com"...lol. No dashes obviously. Rule 34.
(girl needs to get the acne on her asscheeks cleared up, maybe she's allergic to carrots)

[HeyItsZeus]

Oh. You'll have to talk to Rhythm about that one. My specialty is flowers.

Flowers seem a little too flimsy...