The Illuminati and The New World

[kılıç_mehmet]

I'm quite a fan of conspiracy theories in the sense that I like to see them as thought experiments (of course, excluding the obvious nonsense like lizard people). The Illuminati is one conspiracy theory I love in particular.

I'm not sure about some sort of an "illuminated" people founding a cult and conducting rituals and campaigning for some new worldwide order.
But I think that there is already a "world order" around the world that was new during the time of the collapse of the soviet union.
And that world order is the USA.

Essentially, for those who don't know, the Illuminati theory states that the entire world is controlled in secret by the richest, most powerful individuals in the world, who manipulate the masses using subliminal messaging in modern media. Their goal is to create a "New World Order", a united world controlled by them. Their roots go back to their founding in Bavaria, and they have links with groups across history such as the Knights Templar, the Priori of Sion etc etc.

I'm not sure if this is a conspiracy or not. The rich and powerful already control the world. And they might be masonic or something, but illuminated, they certainly are not more than anyone else is.

What I want to ask is this: Is a New World Order really that bad?

Well, do not want. I would not like to subjugate myself to another.
Especially if it is out in the open for everyone to see.

Juxtapose this with a distrustful world economy where countries are constantly in disagreement (Euro debt crisis) and igniting wars (need I raise examples?).

What if these "illuminati" guys are causing all of these?
Why would I want to be ruled by them?

We see divided interests and hence individualistic, selfish motivations, that hinder any attempt at global coordination (look at the UN!).

We do, but I don't think this will change with a "new world order".

Would it not be relieving to see a world finally united? What's more, a world united across religion, race or language by nothing short of an idea. Would it not be admirable for humanity to stand together, for once, against our ultimate enemy: our own helplessness?

No, I would certainly not be subjugate to anyone else but my own, even if it's "humanity" itself.
And I'm sure there are a lot of others who could say the same.

[houseofcantor]

Can these two systems combine into a single idealistic way of life, though? An amalgamation of both the self-centred inclination that is necessary for the functioning of a (modern) free market and efficient resource allocation, as well as the capacity and motivation to care for one another as fellow human beings?

I mean, you spoke of them as if they were mutually exclusive extremities, and admittedly they do seem to be pretty incompatible. But just maybe..?

What, the materialistic Sith and the idealistic Jedi? Why would they wanna get along? Peace is boring.

When I was a kid it was the Age of Aquarius. When I was a young punk hanging with the hippies, they were either old and jaded sellouts or young and idealistic dreamers. Now I'm older, and it's the emergence of the neural network of Gaia.

Hopefully; peace, love, and small furry animals. I read what I write, the meaning behind the words; just wanna say, I don't do hippie-dippie new age nonsense. What you are looking at is what has been mentioned earlier; the internet and the potential for unity from the bottom up. Here, we are avatars. We're not male, female, white, black, American, Chinese; we are words and simulation built form words.

This. Is all the marbles. As long as the technology stands - and we are on the threshold of tribulation, make no mistake - we can scrap these local identities and find unity in the human identity. You get talking heads on the idiot box talking about finite resource and pimping the gospel of us versus them, and all that is going to happen is war. Seven billion people - can't support it. Bullshit.

We can't support giving everybody a 747 and a harem; so we start to think such things can be earned, because we believe in paper currency based on nonsense. What's a 747 go for, twenty mil? So you take an average bloke like me, say he's taking home a wage of 7.50 an hour; assuming a fifty year productivity span; and that Boeing is twenty six lives. That's to put it in your lot, not to actually fly it or anything...

I ain't doing that math; I don't see how anybody can do that math other than by not paying attention and believing in entitlement. Do people really want this shit? No. Only a select few sociopaths. What people what, is what the stuff means. And what does it mean? I am somebody special? Human is not special enough? I think so; I just think many have lost touch with this capitalist consumerism bullshit.

The new world order of the Sith is a war for global resources where those with the "money and power" live out the downfall of civilization in their comfortable manors while billions die. They're not "evil," what they are is conditioned to a lifestyle and a pragmatic philosophy; being a "have" doesn't encourage the desire to become a "have not." Therefore even if individuals of the Sith see what I see they won't credit the possibility because it is not their nature.

The hidden variables are peak oil and chaos mathematics. If we're not fucked, we're fucked; if there was enough room to maneuver it would be business as usual and glacial evolution. I don't hate the greedy corporate type because they are futurists, economists, strategists. It's the religious mindset on top of such, with this burning people in hell for eternity crap because we are saved and they are sinners; that's the dangerousness of the Sith.

You know what I want? To be fucking wrong. To find error in my research, to have some fucking nerd make it all go away by pulling zero-point out of his ass; I'm just not counting on it.

Therefore, Jedi. Rather than us versus them how about us? Why not us versus Luna? Why that rock ain't our base of heavy industry, beats the fuck out of me. Fucking Mars ain't doing nothing but waiting for some monkeys to get off their ass and take it. Let's worry about extra-solar primitive lifeforms before worrying about human pollution because we're the primitive life-form that needs to be preserved.

That's what tool-using monkeys do. They explore. They conquer hostile territory. They ask questions. They don't sit on their fat ass collecting retirement...

[paintpooper]

But your not wrong. When you look at the world with a logical perspective, what you just described is completely accurate. You think the complete dismantle of the middle east is a random human act based on the need to "democratize" the middle east, no, it is directly correlated to oil, which in turn equals money, which equals, power and sexual prowess. If you discredit sex as a reason these people want money and power you are not thinking clearly.

When the commodity oil is traded in US dollars, how does it make any sense that we can basically just print money and hand it to Lybia for oil. We hand countries a small little printed piece of paper for a finite resource that is pumped out of the ground, which holds a very large amount of potential energy. Compare that to what a US dollar is worth, and we are ripping people the fuck off. Wood pulp for Oil.

I also hold that most people in power are sociopathic, as you would have to have a complete lack of empathy to act how they do, so by reasoning, they must be sociopaths.

[Azazylix]

What I want to ask is this: Is a New World Order really that bad?

Well, do not want. I would not like to subjugate myself to another.
Especially if it is out in the open for everyone to see.

Juxtapose this with a distrustful world economy where countries are constantly in disagreement (Euro debt crisis) and igniting wars (need I raise examples?).

What if these "illuminati" guys are causing all of these?
Why would I want to be ruled by them?

We see divided interests and hence individualistic, selfish motivations, that hinder any attempt at global coordination (look at the UN!).

We do, but I don't think this will change with a "new world order".

Would it not be relieving to see a world finally united? What's more, a world united across religion, race or language by nothing short of an idea. Would it not be admirable for humanity to stand together, for once, against our ultimate enemy: our own helplessness?

No, I would certainly not be subjugate to anyone else but my own, even if it's "humanity" itself.
And I'm sure there are a lot of others who could say the same.

Hmm, I think it's safe to assume you personally favor the notion of private liberty to utilitarianism, am I correct? Then may I ask, is the "loss" of personal freedom necessarily a con? I'd argue that the sacrifice of smaller, less relevant freedoms are necessary for a greater form of freedom for everyone else; for instance, I take away your freedom to murder such that the other person has the freedom to live and do stuff.

But it IS a valid thought that they may be causing the problems I mentioned (almost forgot that part of the conspiracy heh!). An inappropriate means to a just end, I'd say, but that of course does not make that justified at all.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Hmm, I think it's safe to assume you personally favor the notion of private liberty to utilitarianism, am I correct? Then may I ask, is the "loss" of personal freedom necessarily a con? I'd argue that the sacrifice of smaller, less relevant freedoms are necessary for a greater form of freedom for everyone else; for instance, I take away your freedom to murder such that the other person has the freedom to live and do stuff.

But it IS a valid thought that they may be causing the problems I mentioned (almost forgot that part of the conspiracy heh!). An inappropriate means to a just end, I'd say, but that of course does not make that justified at all.

You misunderstand. I'm talking in personal pronouns, but I actually mean "us" as a nation.
I'm not sure how this new world order would affect personal freedoms, I'm not talking about these.

I was actually talking about being sovereign nations. Like, not under the flag of a single country. It certainly would not work either, we'd be slaves or worse, as the west would surely usurp this new global country as it's own.

[Azazylix]

When I was a kid it was the Age of Aquarius. When I was a young punk hanging with the hippies, they were either old and jaded sellouts or young and idealistic dreamers. Now I'm older, and it's the emergence of the neural network of Gaia.

Hopefully; peace, love, and small furry animals. I read what I write, the meaning behind the words; just wanna say, I don't do hippie-dippie new age nonsense. What you are looking at is what has been mentioned earlier; the internet and the potential for unity from the bottom up. Here, we are avatars. We're not male, female, white, black, American, Chinese; we are words and simulation built form words.

This. Is all the marbles. As long as the technology stands - and we are on the threshold of tribulation, make no mistake - we can scrap these local identities and find unity in the human identity. You get talking heads on the idiot box talking about finite resource and pimping the gospel of us versus them, and all that is going to happen is war. Seven billion people - can't support it. Bullshit.

We can't support giving everybody a 747 and a harem; so we start to think such things can be earned, because we believe in paper currency based on nonsense. What's a 747 go for, twenty mil? So you take an average bloke like me, say he's taking home a wage of 7.50 an hour; assuming a fifty year productivity span; and that Boeing is twenty six lives. That's to put it in your lot, not to actually fly it or anything...

I ain't doing that math; I don't see how anybody can do that math other than by not paying attention and believing in entitlement. Do people really want this shit? No. Only a select few sociopaths. What people what, is what the stuff means. And what does it mean? I am somebody special? Human is not special enough? I think so; I just think many have lost touch with this capitalist consumerism bullshit.

The new world order of the Sith is a war for global resources where those with the "money and power" live out the downfall of civilization in their comfortable manors while billions die. They're not "evil," what they are is conditioned to a lifestyle and a pragmatic philosophy; being a "have" doesn't encourage the desire to become a "have not." Therefore even if individuals of the Sith see what I see they won't credit the possibility because it is not their nature.

The hidden variables are peak oil and chaos mathematics. If we're not fucked, we're fucked; if there was enough room to maneuver it would be business as usual and glacial evolution. I don't hate the greedy corporate type because they are futurists, economists, strategists. It's the religious mindset on top of such, with this burning people in hell for eternity crap because we are saved and they are sinners; that's the dangerousness of the Sith.

That, sir, was fucking awesome reply. All of it. And I agree wholeheartedly.

May I ask though: is it that you cannot put your trust in religious goons using their material capital in the most beneficial manner, or that you find the threat of doing so too hard to take (like nuclear weapons in North Korea heh). Or perhaps both?

The idea of them flaunting this wealth in the first place (the audacious HYPOCRISY) is probably revolting to many anyway, but I was just wondering why it is so for you.

And wrt your earliest paragraphs, I agree that the world is united as never before, evidenced in recent political, economical and social happenings. However, I think it's a horribly subconscious thing that people not only fail to recognize but ALSO take for granted. No one says "I'm proud to be human", coz we're not.

I DO, however, have a contention with your point that greed is only limited to a select few. I'd say that greed is only EXEMPLIFIED in those sociopaths you mentioned because of the capital they already possess. Maybe the responsibility got to them. Who knows? I do think that greed is inherent in every man. That is, after all, the root of many a conflict. Nevertheless, in many cases, the power of love and communion often overpowers it as an opposing force. Which is why I'd think a love for HUMANITY as a collective state would serve as a perfect ideological solution to conflict.

Your thoughts?

---

You misunderstand. I'm talking in personal pronouns, but I actually mean "us" as a nation.
I'm not sure how this new world order would affect personal freedoms, I'm not talking about these.

I was actually talking about being sovereign nations. Like, not under the flag of a single country. It certainly would not work either, we'd be slaves or worse, as the west would surely usurp this new global country as it's own.

Ah, I see. Undoubtedly, sovereign freedoms will be sacrificed for the establishment of a global government. Is that not the case in the UN now? But my arguments still apply to a certain degree; countries like North Korea and (Gaddafi) Libya cannot have their way for there to be peace.

Besides, the West is falling! Look at the massive US deficit (and decrease of credit rating from AAA)! Eurodebt crisis! Worsening relations with ME countries! Even if they dare try to claim ultimate authority, it'll no doubt be out of empty arrogance. They cannot bear the responsibility of a global government, and they will be challenged.