it's sacrifice as well, depending on the intention

Romans killed Jesus, and yet Jesus was supposedly a supreme being, creator of the universe--so it is a suicide. It's like if a guy lies down on an anthill and lets ants eat him alive.

Also even if we all agreed Jesus committed suicide according to the story, what exactly bothers you about this in the case of Jesus?

But this is just you needing this chance to criticize religion every chance you get even if at the expense of reason

Jesus didn't kill himself according to the story. The Romans did.

The only way out of that dilemma seems for Jesus to have forced people to believe. Any thoughts on why he didn’t?

And that Jesus had to kill himself because it was in the scriptures (although there isn't) doesn't make it less of a suicide because he also wrote (dictated) those scriptures.

Of course he didn't come to "save" the unbelievers and that's why he's a failure. And blaming it on free will of victims doesn't mitigate Jesus failure that he wasn't more convincing.

And Jesus didn't come to save unbelievers. John 3:16.

FM: Christians would answer with Free Will. 'Jesus died for you. If you don't accept it, it's not on Jesus.'

Eleven: But he was SUPPOSED to die, per the narrative. Saving himself wasn't an option.

So more fitting name for Jesus would be like Curser or Damniator or Failure.

And why is Jesus called a Savior because even if you "follow the narrative" he cursed and condemned much more people than he "saved" considering that majority of people don't believe in him and will be doomed? It's like calling Titanic a success in saving drowning people.

Technically, FM is accurate with the suicide angle. Jesus was not willing to save himself, even though it was within his power to do so. Instead, he gave up on life. Theists erroneously label it a sacrifice, when realistically suicide is the more accurate term.

FM: Leaving aside the illogic and inconsistencies of the story, Jesus was SUPPOSED to die to save mankind. Again, self-sacrifice is nothing like being a suicidal maniac. If it were, Jesus would have simply thrown himself under the first runaway oxcart that happened along.

FM: He didn't save anyone, of course. But if you're going to dispute the narrative, you have to dispute what the narrative actually says. And it neither says nor implies that Jesus was a suicide.

You care about Jesus that much? He ends up being fine, don't you worry too much about him.

Or it's like seeing an ant about to fall from the table and you jump on the floor and kill yourself just so an ant could land on something soft and have a nice meal of your flesh.

But even then, Jesus is supposed to be a supreme being, so it's like if you're sitting in a boat with lifejackets and see someone drowning near you and instead of lending your hand to pick him up from water, you purposely drown yourself to get him out.

Saving people? Who did he save? Was someone drowning?