There are no miracles within the Quran, just post hoc reasoning and confirmation biases, as amply evidenced by Harris.

Kudos to you, sir.

All arguments from miracles in support for any religion are post hoc. It's so obvious that it's not even funny to me anymore.

If a religion relies on impossible things happening then it is a false religion.

^^

There aren't any miracles in the Quran, just your post hoc reasoning, so no explanation is needed. How many times do you want me to copy and paste that Harry?

There is no reference to an expanding universe in the Quran, no reference to dark matter, no reference to neurology, no reference to anti-biotics. What there is are spurious all encompassing references to bollocks like 'skin' or whatever, where you, living in the 21st century (though sometimes I forget reading your posts) have automatically inferred using your knowledge that someone in the 7th century must also have known because 'Mohammed innit?'

Not very convincing. And when combined with numerology? 'Man and woman are mentioned 23 times = REVELATION ABOUT CHROMOSOMES'. Wow, amazing. Why did Jésus, sorry, Allah or whatever stop there? Why didn't he reveal how to treat the myriad of chromosome based illnesses, like, say, Down's syndrome or something? Or is that not how this works?

Lol. There's a reason nobody takes you guys seriously in the real world, you know.

(August 14, 2015 at 1:35 pm)Pandæmonium Wrote: There aren't any miracles in the Quran, just your post hoc reasoning, so no explanation is needed. How many times do you want me to copy and paste that Harry?

There is no reference to an expanding universe in the Quran, no reference to dark matter, no reference to neurology, no reference to anti-biotics. What there is are spurious all encompassing references to bollocks like 'skin' or whatever, where you, living in the 21st century (though sometimes I forget reading your posts) have automatically inferred using your knowledge that someone in the 7th century must also have known because 'Mohammed innit?'

Not very convincing. And when combined with numerology? 'Man and woman are mentioned 23 times = REVELATION ABOUT CHROMOSOMES'. Wow, amazing. Why did Jésus, sorry, Allah or whatever stop there? Why didn't he reveal how to treat the myriad of chromosome based illnesses, like, say, Down's syndrome or something? Or is that not how this works?

Lol. There's a reason nobody takes you guys seriously in the real world, you know.

Let me give you some REFRESHMENTS.

A. Prove following verses misrepresents the real world scientific facts.


1. Big Bang

“Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? … ”
Al Anbiyaa' (21)
-Verse 30-

2. Metric expansion of space

“With power did We construct the heaven. Verily, We are Able to extend the vastness of space thereof.”
Translation by Dr. M. Taqiud-Din & Dr. M. Khan

“With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.”
Translation by Yusuf Ali:

Adz-Dzaariya (51)
-Verse 47-

3. Orbits

“And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating.”
Translation by Dr. M. Taqiud-Din & Dr. M. Khan

“It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.”
Translation by Yusuf Ali
Al Anbiyaa' (21)
-Verse 33-

4. The Solar apex

“And the sun runs his course for a period determined for him: that is the decree of (Him), the Exalted in Might, the All-Knowing.”
Yaa Siin (36)
-Verse 38-

5. Iron carried by meteorites to earth

“…WE SENT DOWN IRON, in which is (material for) mighty war, as well as many benefits for mankind…” (Quran 57:25)

6. The deep ocean currents

“Or (the state of a disbeliever) is like the darkness in a vast deep sea, overwhelmed with a great wave topped by a great wave, topped by dark clouds, darkness, one above another, if a man stretches out his hand, he can hardly see it! And he for whom Allah has not appointed light, for him there is no light.”
Translation by Dr. M. Taqiud-Din & Dr. M. Khan:

“Or (the Unbelievers' state) is like the depths of darkness in a vast deep ocean, overwhelmed with billow topped by billow, topped by (dark) clouds: depths of darkness, one above another: if a man stretches out his hands, he can hardly see it! for any to whom Allah giveth not light, there is no light!”
Translation by Yusuf Ali:

An Nuur (24)
-Verse 40-

7. Halocline

“It is He Who has let free the two bodies of flowing water: One palatable and sweet and the other salt and bitter; yet has He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed.”
Al Furqaan (25)
-Verse 53-

8. Human embryo and its stages of development

“O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you;”
Al Hajj (22)
-Verse 5-

“Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay);
Then We placed him as (a drop of) sperm in a place of rest, firmly fixed;
Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!”

Al Mu'minuun (23)
-Verses 12, 13, 14-

9. Skin a Pain Receptor

“Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.”
An Nisaa (4)
-Verse 56-


B. Prove that Prophet Muhammad and his companions have made all those verses.

None of those things relate at all the topics you say they do. There's no mention of a singularity for the big bang in the Quran ergo = post hoc reasoning. You wouldn't infer that verse specifically related to the Big Bang unless you knew about it. I mean the iron thing is great. Does the Quran discuss the atomic composition of iron, and how iron is actually formed?

*sigh* I suspect without reading this thread that everyone else has rebutted this for the same reason. That should tell you somethig, but i suspect the indoctrination is too strong and you are forever lost. Oh well, not my life, so I don't really care. Please continue with your confirmation bias and faulty logic ^_^

Quote:What happened with the people before 14th century, why were they silent about numbness and what happened after 14th century that they all of a sudden opened rigorous discussions over numbness in the burned skin?

Where are the rigorous discussions on numbness in burned skin after the 14th century? Can you show me rigorous discussions in the 15th century about burned skin with numbness?
I don't know that they were silent before the 14th century.  I don't know that there have been rigorous discussions over numbness in burned skin since the 14th century.

You're asking for ancient medical records, not only that but ancient medical records on an obscure topic.

You're basic demands are,

Either find ancient writings about the obscure topic of numbness in burned skin, or the quran is a miracle.

If the quran mentioned some sort of new scientific discovery or technology you would have a point.

A car is a non ancient form of technology, if they found that in the quran it would be odd, surprising, worth thinking about.

Numbness in skin due to nerve damage isn't new technology, it's a sensation or lack of sensation.  A symptom of 3rd degree burns.

Now I take it you admit people did suffer 3rd degree burns in ancient times, so you tell me is it likely they experienced numbness in their skin if they're was numbness?
If people in ancient times did suffer 3rd degree burns please tell me why would they not experience the symptoms of 3rd degree burns?

Quote: 5. Iron carried by meteorites to earth

“…WE SENT DOWN IRON, in which is (material for) mighty war, as well as many benefits for mankind…” (Quran 57:25)

We've already been through this once before, the term "Send down" is used to describe many things and people in the quran provided by god.  For example books, food, prophets.  Just because one of these things happens to have at one point been in a meteorite doesn't make it a miracle.
The verse wouldn't be wrong if iron wasn't sent down in a meteorite, you would just interpret the verse differently so that sent down meant provided for.  It's only in this instance you're trying to interpret sent down as meaning being sent down in a meteorite.

(August 14, 2015 at 1:52 pm)Harris Wrote: Let me give you some REFRESHMENTS.

A. Prove following verses misrepresents the real world scientific facts.


1. Big Bang

“Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? … ”
Al Anbiyaa' (21)
-Verse 30-

Everything you say needs your own metacommentary-- haven't you noticed? I'm pretty sure you added (as one unit of creation) to make it sound more like the Big Bang.

Quote:2. Metric expansion of space

“With power did We construct the heaven. Verily, We are Able to extend the vastness of space thereof.”
Translation by Dr. M. Taqiud-Din & Dr. M. Khan

“With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.”
Translation by Yusuf Ali:

Adz-Dzaariya (51)
-Verse 47-

So the muslims thought the universe was big. So does my beagle. Is he a miracle-worker too?

Quote:3. Orbits

“And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating.”
Translation by Dr. M. Taqiud-Din & Dr. M. Khan

Your miracle book forgot to mention that the Earth is also in orbit around the sun.

Quote:4. The Solar apex

“And the sun runs his course for a period determined for him: that is the decree of (Him), the Exalted in Might, the All-Knowing.”
Yaa Siin (36)
-Verse 38-

wth does this even mean? Is the sun a man?

Quote:5. Iron carried by meteorites to earth
“…WE SENT DOWN IRON, in which is (material for) mighty war, as well as many benefits for mankind…” (Quran 57:25)

So the muslims had the ability to see thing fall, to pick things up, and to identify things as iron? Ooooh. . . miraculous.

Quote:6. The deep ocean currents

“Or (the state of a disbeliever) is like the darkness in a vast deep sea, overwhelmed with a great wave topped by a great wave, topped by dark clouds, darkness, one above another, if a man stretches out his hand, he can hardly see it! And he for whom Allah has not appointed light, for him there is no light.”
Translation by Dr. M. Taqiud-Din & Dr. M. Khan:

“Or (the Unbelievers' state) is like the depths of darkness in a vast deep ocean, overwhelmed with billow topped by billow, topped by (dark) clouds: depths of darkness, one above another: if a man stretches out his hands, he can hardly see it! for any to whom Allah giveth not light, there is no light!”
Translation by Yusuf Ali:

An Nuur (24)
-Verse 40-

Because nobody knew oceans were deep? You sure?

Quote:7. Halocline

“It is He Who has let free the two bodies of flowing water: One palatable and sweet and the other salt and bitter; yet has He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed.”
Al Furqaan (25)
-Verse 53-

Observable from almost any cliff near a river joining the ocean. I've seen it myself, and it is obvious what is happening. You only think it's a miracle because YOU didn't know about it. Sailors and anyone living by the ocean would know.

Quote:8. Human embryo and its stages of development

“O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you;”
Al Hajj (22)
-Verse 5-

Proving that muslims were familiar with basic surgery and biology. Impressive considering their day, but not very miraculous.

Quote:9. Skin a Pain Receptor

“Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.”
An Nisaa (4)
-Verse 56-

This says more about the muslim love for torture than about their scientific prowess. Normal people don't go around thinking about the best way to cause people pain, and I would say that a loving God probably wouldn't either. A bunch of twisted, angry desert people, on the other hand. . .