(September 3, 2015 at 10:58 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote:

(September 3, 2015 at 9:05 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Wow, was not expecting something that vitriolic or mean.  No, I never stated that I think a belief in god is reasonable.  And I see enough strawmanning from theists, I'd rather not see it from someone who happens to hold the same position on the god claim as I do.

Pyrrho says that he held anti-gay positions, presumably as an adult.  That is probably just the tip of the iceberg.  I suspect when your religious experience extends that late in life and leads you to do things -like try to convert others- that there is greater conflict in moving on.  I compare it to gang membership.  That is why some of them require you to kill someone to get in.  It ensures you'll never forgive yourself enough to try to have a better life.  

To the degree that Pyrrho is processing his life I say carry on and good luck.  But I do question the over emphasis on rationality.  It might be feel like it is necessary for your internal balance now, but I'd advise against attempting to reverse 'religious-jerk' stances.  The thing is to just stop doing harm first.  Express yourself.  Beat a pillow but striking out against others isn't healthy.

Well..isn't that kinda what I said?  I said that I don't know what's he's been through and I hold nothing against him in terms of his experience, but his statements about 'everyone' or 'religious people' or absolutist statements about theists is unfounded...

BUT...he did really respond aggressively towards me with a pretty strong strawman... "So you believe that belief in god is reasonable? Please explain that to everyone." ...I never said that.

(September 3, 2015 at 11:06 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(September 3, 2015 at 10:58 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote: To the degree that Pyrrho is processing his life I say carry on and good luck.  But I do question the over emphasis on rationality.  It might be feel like it is necessary for your internal balance now, but I'd advise against attempting to reverse 'religious-jerk' stances.  The thing is to just stop doing harm first.  Express yourself.  Beat a pillow but striking out against others isn't healthy.

Well..isn't that kinda what I said?  

 That's true.  I'll split my fee for the mind fuck with you then.

(September 3, 2015 at 11:15 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote:

(September 3, 2015 at 11:06 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Well..isn't that kinda what I said?  

 That's true.  I'll split my fee for the mind fuck with you then.

How about we just split something to fuck?  I'm lonely and exhausted from college.

Don't yall believe morality is subjective anyway? So when ask if religion corrupts morality, wtw, who's what morality are you referring to, if morality just depends on whatever each person thinks is moral?

I think it depends on the religion. Calvinism, for instance, pretty much abnegates man's moral agency, and the Get Out of Hell Free card that late redemption offers according to many if not met Christian sects rather does the same, to a lesser extent.

Some of the Eastern religions seem to emphasize personal responsibility, which seems to me would encourage moral introspection.

(September 3, 2015 at 11:19 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Don't yall believe morality is subjective anyway? So when ask if religion corrupts morality, wtw, who's what morality are you referring to, if morality just depends on whatever each person thinks is moral?

oof..rough first sentence, nice lady...


'morality' is a pretty damn vague term..  A moral system is by definition based on certain parameters.  Those parameters can be something like...'what's outlined in x holy book', 'whatever x person says', 'whatever x culture values', 'whatever promotes human wellbeing and health', etc.  Every moral system necessarily has presuppositions.  The common use of 'subjective morality' is usually a cheap shot that means something like 'any opinion on morality is as good as any other opinion on morality, so you have no basis of saying anything is right or wrong', sometimes leading into the evangelical favorite of pedophilia or Nazis or something...


But no, there is no 'y'all' when it comes to morality.  The mere fact that cultures, nations, and individuals have different moral systems pretty much objectively demonstrates that there ARE different moral systems.    

If you're asking 'do you think there is an absolute, objective, externally-defined code of morality' then no, i don't think that, because I don't think there's anything external to our reality or our human race.  I'm going to assume (and correct me if I'm wrong) that you're going use Catholic catechism/the bible/jesus as some basis of morality....but there are other people and cultures and religions that also uses those bases...and arrive at different conclusions...  So I don't know how you can even posit something like  objective morality at all, unless you really just say 'everyone else has got it wrong'.

Yes, Religion corrupts morality. It teaches people to be unquestioning of their beliefs because their morality comes from a higher power. One who's power is absolute. It corrupts morality by impeding progression. One can't say "Well, this is wrong now" without justification from their religious book.

Just look at the religious rule of the many countries in the middle east. Look at the divisions between the many branches of Christianity, and Islam. Consider the position of religion on issues such as birth control and gay rights.

Now that's not to say religious people can't evolve their views. Some do. However overall religion has served to slow down the progress of morality. Terrible things are done in the names of gods and demi-gods. How easy it is to justify doing something in the name of your creator.

(September 3, 2015 at 11:25 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(September 3, 2015 at 11:19 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Don't yall believe morality is subjective anyway? So when ask if religion corrupts morality, wtw, who's what morality are you referring to, if morality just depends on whatever each person thinks is moral?

oof..rough first sentence, nice lady...

Hahah! Yeah, I just saw that. I was watching TV when I typed it up. Whoops!

i meant in meaning..not grammar...

(September 3, 2015 at 11:42 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: i meant in meaning..not grammar...

Ah, gotcha. Yes, I understand not all atheists believe morality is subjective. I did a thread on it here though, and saw that an overwhelming amount of the people here did, so figured it was ok to speak in general terms.