Much of the actual forms of Buddhism as actually practiced is either outright theistic, in the sense that deities are directly appealed to, or place so much focus upon some mystical, ineffable wisdom that can only be accessed through the Buddha that the Buddha is a deity in all but name.

While Buddhism may in some instances be seen as less confrontational and reflexively hostile towards outright atheism, I don't think Buddhism is in any way a step towards atheism for its actual adherents.

(September 27, 2015 at 8:41 am)Chuck Wrote: Much of the actual forms of Buddhism as actually practiced is either outright theistic, in the sense that deities are directly appealed to, or place so much focus upon some mystical, ineffable wisdom that can only be accessed through the Buddha that the Buddha is a deity in all but name.

While Buddhism may in some instances be seen as less confrontational and reflexively hostile towards outright atheism, I don't think Buddhism is in any way a step towards atheism for its actual adherents.

It depends what you mean by "-ism."  Obviously, people in Buddhists countries have their cultural institutions: bowing, burning incense, etc.  However, to follow the instruction of the man requires mainly philosophical insight, meditation, etc.  That's why you get a new generation of Western atheist buddhists (e.g. Sam Harris).

(September 27, 2015 at 8:41 am)Chuck Wrote: Much of the actual forms of Buddhism as actually practiced is either outright theistic, in the sense that deities are directly appealed to, or place so much focus upon some mystical, ineffable wisdom that can only be accessed through the Buddha that the Buddha is a deity in all but name.

While Buddhism may in some instances be seen as less confrontational and reflexively hostile towards outright atheism, I don't think Buddhism is in any way a step towards atheism for its actual adherents.

I say "a step toward atheism" because it's a 2500 year old religion that (theoretically, if not in practice) eschews the concept of gods as necessary to achieve enlightenment. I think of it as something like a transitional fossil.

(September 26, 2015 at 1:23 am)ignoramus Wrote: Considering the percentage of religious people about, there's bound to be lots of smart ones. Despite their beliefs! I can't imagine an over representation of them though. Unless of course God is intervening! And we're all in agreeance on the chances of that happening.

not all of us are in agreeance ...

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(September 26, 2015 at 12:26 am)heatiosrs Wrote: So I read this on a site a while back and was wondering if there is any validity to it.

The site said "Religious people tend to be geniuses/smarter people more often because they can think outside of the box and find loopholes and different scenarios where their claims would still be accurate"

I was wondering if there was any truth to this.

On one hand, the reasoning for believers supposedly being "Smarter" than non-believers actually seems to make sense in this statement(not that it adds any validity to god existing).

On the other hand, i've yet to come in contact, or see a person that fits this description.

well Einstein was a Deist although he thought religions were childish he did believe in God . some people consider the belief in God as being religious others say only belief in religion is considered religious , i dont consider the ability to make excuses to prop up your religion when it doesnt add up to be proof of intelligence although they are doing mental gymnastics more doesnt equal intelligence . i think it would just be exhausting .

(October 12, 2015 at 5:05 pm)jenny1972 Wrote:

(September 26, 2015 at 1:23 am)ignoramus Wrote: Considering the percentage of religious people about, there's bound to be lots of smart ones. Despite their beliefs! I can't imagine an over representation of them though. Unless of course God is intervening! And we're all in agreeance on the chances of that happening.

not all of us are in agreeance ...

---

(September 26, 2015 at 12:26 am)heatiosrs Wrote: So I read this on a site a while back and was wondering if there is any validity to it.

The site said "Religious people tend to be geniuses/smarter people more often because they can think outside of the box and find loopholes and different scenarios where their claims would still be accurate"

I was wondering if there was any truth to this.

On one hand, the reasoning for believers supposedly being "Smarter" than non-believers actually seems to make sense in this statement(not that it adds any validity to god existing).

On the other hand, i've yet to come in contact, or see a person that fits this description.

well Einstein was a Deist although he thought religions were childish he did believe in God . some people consider the belief in God as being religious others say only belief in religion is considered religious , i dont consider the ability to make excuses to prop up your religion when it doesnt add up to be proof of intelligence although they are doing mental gymnastics more doesnt equal intelligence . i think it would just be exhausting .

Actually Einstein was agnostic.
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/einstein.htm
(random site i found but i think it will suffice)

(October 12, 2015 at 7:32 pm)heatiosrs Wrote:

(October 12, 2015 at 5:05 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: not all of us are in agreeance ...

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well Einstein was a Deist although he thought religions were childish he did believe in God . some people consider the belief in God as being religious others say only belief in religion is considered religious , i dont consider the ability to make excuses to prop up your religion when it doesnt add up to be proof of intelligence although they are doing mental gymnastics more doesnt equal intelligence . i think it would just be exhausting .

Actually Einstein was agnostic.
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/einstein.htm
(random site i found but i think it will suffice)

agnostic just is the belief that we are not capable of understanding God or completely knowing God . im an agnostic a lot of people who believe in God are also agnostic . einstein was an agnostic deist.



" My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind. "


" Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble. "


" The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection. "

(October 12, 2015 at 8:20 pm)jenny1972 Wrote:

(October 12, 2015 at 7:32 pm)heatiosrs Wrote: Actually Einstein was agnostic.
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/einstein.htm
(random site i found but i think it will suffice)

agnostic just is the belief that we are not capable of understanding God or completely knowing God . im an agnostic a lot of people who believe in God are also agnostic . einstein was an agnostic deist.

" My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind. "



" Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble. "



" The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection. "

ag·nos·tic
noun

a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.        synonyms: skeptic, doubter, doubting Thomas, cynic;       An agnostic does not believe in god.  They believe that there is no proof for or against the existence of god.  

Where did you get those quotes?  --  Particularly the "Everyone" one . . . since the vast majority of scientists are atheist?  
And if you are going to post quotes, you need an attribution or a citation.

(October 12, 2015 at 8:20 pm)jenny1972 Wrote:

(October 12, 2015 at 7:32 pm)heatiosrs Wrote: Actually Einstein was agnostic.
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/einstein.htm
(random site i found but i think it will suffice)

agnostic just is the belief that we are not capable of understanding God or completely knowing God . im an agnostic a lot of people who believe in God are also agnostic . einstein was an agnostic deist.

" My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind. "

" Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble. "

" The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection. "

Agnostic is the position of neither disbelief nor belief in god. Whatever personal conclusion you want to draw is fine by me, but that's not the actual definition.

A lot of things Einstein said were contradictory toward religion, you just pick and chose the more "religious quotes" when I'm pretty sure I could find some heavily atheist quotes by him as well. Over all though, the evidence leads toward him being agnostic or even atheist.

Also agnostic deist is pretty hard to define, unless someone specifically states it, based on the fact that almost all religious people would hardly ever be caught making contradictory statements(knowingly, ex. "I wouldnt want to believe in a cruel god, and I find no evidence for god" and then saying "my religious views are that I believe in god who has created this universe" etc. or whatever), it's more plausible to call Einstein an agnostic with the belief that god could exist, but not believing that one does.

Also,

1. How does someone "come to know god"? Are you just metaphorically speaking about the voices in your head or referring to a book of some sort? There is no definitive difference between people claiming they "speak to god" and people with schitzophrenia, and any normal person would be terrified if someone started talking to them in their head, even more so trying to influence their actions.

2. Why do you believe in a deist god? The belief in a deist god breaks down in arguments sake when you consider the argument. You believe that all this couldn't just come from nothing and that a god had to create it. Yet, when doing so you are just proposing a harder question and not answering the original one. Where did god come from? If you allow yourself to say we are so complex we must have been designed, you must also ask where a god that is infinitely more complex and had the power to create us and exist in its own complex self at the same time came from. And in that, the argument falls flat, and the answer ultimately can't be found.

(October 12, 2015 at 8:38 pm)heatiosrs Wrote: [quote pid='1081961' dateline='1444695624']
" The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection. "

Also agnostic deist is pretty hard to define, unless someone specifically states it, based on the fact that almost all religious people would hardly ever be caught making contradictory statements(knowingly, ex. "I wouldnt want to believe in a cruel god, and I find no evidence for god" and then saying "my religious views are that I believe in god who has created this universe" etc. or whatever), it's more plausible to call Einstein an agnostic with the belief that god could exist, but not believing that one does.

Also,

1. How does someone "come to know god"? Are you just metaphorically speaking about the voices in your head or referring to a book of some sort? There is no definitive difference between people claiming they "speak to god" and people with schitzophrenia, and any normal person would be terrified if someone started talking to them in their head, even more so trying to influence their actions.

2. Why do you believe in a deist god? The belief in a deist god breaks down in arguments sake when you consider the argument. You believe that all this couldn't just come from nothing and that a god had to create it. Yet, when doing so you are just proposing a harder question and not answering the original one. Where did god come from? If you allow yourself to say we are so complex we must have been designed, you must also ask where a god that is infinitely more complex and had the power to create us and exist in its own complex self at the same time came from. And in that, the argument falls flat, and the answer ultimately can't be found.
[/quote]

sorry im probabally mistaken i was under the impression that agnostic meant simply " i dont know " . most people will readily admit that they dont have it all figured out and do not believe they can figure it all out . even many religious people who believe that God exists . based on all the statements ive read its clear that einstein did believe in God he just did not believe in the God portrayed in religions.

i think your assumption that any normal person would be terrified if someone started talking to them in their head is not true although people react differently so i can only speak for myself its not terrifying its exciting and interesting . I dont claim to know any of the questions you are asking ' where did God come from ' and the rest . I dont need to know every single mystery of the universe to believe in God , my belief in God is just because God proved to my doubtful mind that He exists so i believe because of that proof not because i think i have all the answers to everything .

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(October 12, 2015 at 8:31 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:

(October 12, 2015 at 8:20 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: agnostic just is the belief that we are not capable of understanding God or completely knowing God . im an agnostic a lot of people who believe in God are also agnostic . einstein was an agnostic deist.

" My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind. "



" Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble. "



" The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection. "

Where did you get those quotes?  --  Particularly the "Everyone" one . . . since the vast majority of scientists are atheist?  
And if you are going to post quotes, you need an attribution or a citation.

just go to google and type in einstein quotes on God he says quite a bit about God

Yes, he did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_..._afterlife

Quote:"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I feel also not able to imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. My views are near those of Spinoza: admiration for the beauty of and belief in the logical simplicity of the order which we can grasp humbly and only imperfectly. I believe that we have to content ourselves with our imperfect knowledge and understanding and treat values and moral obligations as a purely human problem—the most important of all human problems."

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These subtilised interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text."

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

The last is my favorite. The term "unbounded" is a mathematical term, meaning a function (equation) that is not bounded by integers, but which goes from negative infinity to infinity. He may have been using it in a more colloquial context, simply to mean "bigger than I can express in words", but I like to think he deliberately chose the largest mathematical term he could express.