(November 4, 2015 at 7:05 am)Rhythm Wrote: Not to shit in anyone's cereal, but the stat that provides reason for the documentary to exist is sourced from a single study.....with no peer review, and is more than a little bit nuts just on the surface of it (the many, smaller, ancillary claims are just as shady).   Fucking, horrible, "documentary".  Fantasy problems, fantasy solutions.  It was entertaining and engaging, tho, decent production value.  The organizations interviewed needed to send better reps, but probably didn't realize that they were going to be part of a "gotcha" type job.  

Basically the vegan Zeitgeist.  : sadface :

I was going to say that I hadn't seen it but that I am extremely skeptical of beef production being our leading cause of environmental problems. I mean, Bejing doesn't have super high cancer rates because they produce a bunch of meat. That's the type of claim that reeks of sensationalism and not actual science.

In terms of health for environment, Protein from Cows <<< Protein from Rabbits <<< Protein from Insects

But no one wants to eat their pets and no one wants to touch, let alone eat, insects. This sounds like a job for a marketing executive. They've done it before (think: Lobster)

The bugs bit sounds like a job for the Great Processing Complex, not some ad exec.  They already get you to stuff questionable shit down your gullet.  Extract of beaver anus comes to mind, for artificial vanilla.  It'd be no sweat for them to sneak cockroaches in there (hell...they already do, don't they?).  When they begin to openly advertise a percentage of bugs in their mix it won't have anything to do with the environment, or sustainability.  They'll do it because it's cheap.  

That's a bit further off than bunny being on the menu, if you ask me...and even the bunny is a ways off yet.  We'll streamline our "conventional" livestock before we ever get adventurous, and why not?

(you fucking poor people, there are bugs everywhere, you should eat them and stop starving! )

(November 4, 2015 at 1:25 pm)Rhythm Wrote: The bugs bit sounds like a job for the Great Processing Complex, not some ad exec.  They already get you to stuff questionable shit down your gullet.  Extract of beaver anus comes to mind, for artificial vanilla.  It'd be no sweat for them to sneak cockroaches in there (hell...they already do, don't they?).  When they begin to openly advertise a percentage of bugs in their mix it won't have anything to do with the environment, or sustainability.  They'll do it because it's cheap.  

That's a bit further off than bunny being on the menu, if you ask me...and even the bunny is a ways off yet.  We'll streamline our "conventional" livestock before we ever get adventurous, and why not?

(you fucking poor people, there are bugs everywhere, you should eat them and stop starving!   )

I'm surprised the GOP hasn't latched onto this yet.

(November 4, 2015 at 1:25 pm)Rhythm Wrote: The bugs bit sounds like a job for the Great Processing Complex, not some ad exec.  They already get you to stuff questionable shit down your gullet.  
. . . . .
(you fucking poor people, there are bugs everywhere, you should eat them and stop starving!   )

I know bugs are a great source of nutrition, but yuck! Give me a good well marbled steak!

(November 4, 2015 at 11:33 am)TheRealJoeFish Wrote: In terms of health for environment, Protein from Cows...

Here's something people need to get through their heads: WE DON"T NEED TO CONSUME PROTEIN. How do you think cows, rhinos and elephants get protein? The same way we get it: By building it from amino acids. In fact, protein from from a cow (or any other animal) is useless to a human body directly. The human body breaks down the cow protein to its component amino acids and then uses those to build human protein - a very inefficient process. It is much more efficient to get those amino acids from vegetable sources because they are much easier to extract.

On the other side of the equation, the herbivores that we eat need vegetable matter to grow so we have to cultivate vegetables to feed them anyway. More inefficiency. Cultivating vegetables for ourselves and bypassing the animals makes much more sense. This doesn't even consider climate change or ethical issues.

I won't address the issue of culinary preference. I really admire people like Robvalue and Bill Clinton who subjugate their own preferences 100% for the common good. I'm not quite there. I'm maybe 80% vegetarian, My biggest vice is cheese. I have a hard time resisting tuna too.

(November 4, 2015 at 1:25 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (you fucking poor people, there are bugs everywhere, you should eat them and stop starving!   )

How 'bout these?

Everything in Cowspiracy has been well know in the vegan community for years and years. Similarly to "Earthlings" a lot of people who used to just write off this stuff as "conspiracy nut/vegan extremist bullshit" actually had to confront rather compelling evidence their own thinking may be flawed after watching these types of documentaries. The question becomes, how far has the truth been stretched and what to do about it as an individual? 

Though I am a long time vegan, I am also a realist and recognize the world won't stop consuming flesh, non-human lactation or poultry menstruation overnight or even in my lifetime. I think sometimes the most realistic option to convince the masses to try (which is reduction in consumption, not elimination from their diets entirely) is overshadowed by extremism, shock value and stretching the truth by overly-zealous vegans. I do hope whomever has seen this at least took away from it that modern factory farming is not sustainable and that reducing consumption is an option for those too scared to give up animal products completely. My thought is, every small step in the right direction is better than the status quo.

Right, lets check a few boxes.


1.  We -do not- compete with livestock for veggies.  Livestock eats grain, and the grain livestock eats isn't fit for human consumption.  It's grown on more marginal land, with less input and labor.  

2. Livestock -are not- inefficient.  We've put them to inefficient use.  We've done so as a consequence of working a miracle over the last half-century with corn yields - but cattle, for example...can eat something that we simply can't.  Grass.  Most cattle are pastured, ofc, and that's why.  

3. Factory farming is not only sustainable, it is the engine of -any- sustainable ag alternative.   Folks forget that we went the factory route precisely -because- it's more efficient than open production.  

I think that a decision to eat a vegan diet has compelling motivation enough without any attached disinformation.

But I like cows - mostly a bit at a time.