Perhaps one could simply swear at the bible in lieu of swearing on a bible?

Q: "With your hand on the holy word do you affirm that the witness you are about to give .."

A: "Fuck the bible!"

BTW, I'm unaware of any scriptural justification contained in the Bible being sworn upon for the practice of affirming an oath thereon, so the whole idea of doing it is heretical and/or blasphemous.

But doesn't the Bible itself say not to swear by the Bible? Or am I mistaken? James 5:12 (King James) says this:
"But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation."

(November 24, 2015 at 4:50 pm)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: But doesn't the Bible itself say not to swear by the Bible? Or am I mistaken? James 5:12 (King James) says this:
"But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation."

Yeah, but that's one of them... whaddyacallit... ehh, what do you call those parts of the bible you can ignore if it's inconvenient... oh, right... Verses.  That's one of the verses.

How about swearing at the fucking thing?

(November 24, 2015 at 4:50 pm)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: But doesn't the Bible itself say not to swear by the Bible? Or am I mistaken? James 5:12 (King James) says this:
"But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation."

Hell, I just assumed it was hinky since it wasn't mentioned.  That it is mentioned and prohibited is yet another fuck in the bunghole for the supposedly pious among us.

I'm starting to wonder if they ever get ANYTHING right ??

(November 24, 2015 at 5:08 pm)Minimalist Wrote: How about swearing at the fucking thing?

Proof once again that old minds think alike.

In NZ, oaths are generally sworn on a Christian Bible. You can swear on another religious text if you like, but you need to bring your own to court (the courts only have Bibles).

In my recent oh-so-much-fucking-fun witness appearance, I was permitted to affirm (rather than swear) without my hand on a book of any sort. The affirmation runs thusly here, but it may be different other places:

'I solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm that the evidence I present to this court is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge, and is not made under any duress, threat, or promise of reward.'

Boru

(November 24, 2015 at 6:31 am)ignoramus Wrote: Guys, after reading various posts, it dawned on me that we as a secular society still have our legal system anchored on a huge fucking archilles heel.
Namely the act of having to swear on the bible. How does it work if you are there to testify but proclaim that you are not religious?
What do Muzzies do? Does our legal system think that putting your hand on an old book and muttering a few words will magically force you to tell the absolute divine truth!

This bullshit needs to change. It doesn't deserve to be held in such high regard. Especially in Australia and the UK.

They don't do that in the USA anymore.  I use to work in the Just Ice department from Federal to traffic and never once saw a bible in a courtroom and that was years ago.

(November 24, 2015 at 4:50 pm)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: But doesn't the Bible itself say not to swear by the Bible? Or am I mistaken? James 5:12 (King James) says this:
"But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation."

You are right.  The James 5:12 passage is a repeat of Matthew 5:33-37 (CEV) = "33 You know that our ancestors were told, “Don’t use the Lord’s name to make a promise unless you are going to keep it.” 34 But I tell you not to swear by anything when you make a promise! Heaven is God’s throne, so don’t swear by heaven. 35 The earth is God’s footstool, so don’t swear by the earth. Jerusalem is the city of the great king, so don’t swear by it. 36 Don’t swear by your own head. You cannot make one hair white or black. 37 When you make a promise, say only “Yes” or “No.” Anything else comes from the devil."

In Abraham's time men swore by putting a hand on the testicles of the man they were making an oath to.  That's why it's called "testimony".

Genesis 24:1-9 (EXB) = "A Wife for Isaac

24 Abraham was now very old, ·along in years [L going in days], and the Lord had blessed him in every way. 2 Abraham said to his oldest servant [L in his house], who was in charge of everything he owned, “Put your hand under my ·leg [L thigh; C a euphemism for male genitalia, expressing commitment to keep a promise]. 3 ·Make a promise to me before [Swear to me by] the Lord, the God of heaven and [L the God of] earth. Don’t get a wife for my son from the ·Canaanite girls [L daughters of the Canaanites] who live around here. 4 Instead, go back to my country, to the land of my relatives, and get a wife for my son Isaac.”

5 The servant said to him, “·What if [Perhaps] this woman does not want to return with me to this land? Then, should I take your son with me back to your homeland?”

6 Abraham said to him, “No! ·Don’t take [L Be careful not to take] my son back there. 7 The Lord, the God of heaven, brought me from the home of my father and the land of my relatives. And he ·promised [swore to] me, ‘I will give this land to your ·descendants [L seed].’ The Lord will send his ·angel [messenger] before you to help you get a wife for my son there. 8 If the ·girl [woman] won’t come back with you, you will be ·free [declared innocent] from this promise. But you must not take my son back there.” 9 So the servant put his hand under his master’s ·leg [L thigh; 24:2] and ·made a promise [swore] to Abraham about this."

So if that practice was being done today witnesses would swear on the judge's testicles.  There might be some problems with women judges.