(October 13, 2015 at 5:11 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: I can't believe I'm posting this again.

A/theism has to do with belief.

A/gnosticism has to do with knowledge.

I, for example, am an agnostic atheist because I lack a belief in deities, but I don't claim to know whether they exist or not.

Fence sitter!

(October 13, 2015 at 10:19 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: Once again this must be trotted out to debunk another faither's misunderstanding of theism/atheism gnosticism/agnosticism:

I'm not a faither, but I don't see things this way.  It goes against the historical usage of the world, and ignores the contexts under which people talk about their ideas.  If you are really just talking about people lacking a belief, then my beagle is an agnostic atheist.  Presumably, there are some hidden criteria here: for example, that one has the capacity to hold a belief, but doesn't.  But this is a slippery slope, since in order to have the capacity to believe in something, it must be well defined, and there are limitless possible definitions of deity/theity; suddenly, the ignostic position starts to rear its head-- but that's really just a pure agnostic with a specific reason attached to it.

Also important is the context in which the words are used.  It rarely happens that anyone claims to lack a belief unless someone has first presented them with that belief, and I think 99% of the time, a person in that situation is more likely to believe that said God idea DOESN'T exist, i.e. to be anti-theist.

I'm agnostic, not agnostic atheist.  That's because my answer to the God question varies not with my world view, but with the semantics of the question.

(September 26, 2015 at 12:26 am)heatiosrs Wrote: So I read this on a site a while back and was wondering if there is any validity to it.

The site said "Religious people tend to be geniuses/smarter people more often because they can think outside of the box and find loopholes and different scenarios where their claims would still be accurate"

I was wondering if there was any truth to this.

On one hand, the reasoning for believers supposedly being "Smarter" than non-believers actually seems to make sense in this statement(not that it adds any validity to god existing).

On the other hand, i've yet to come in contact, or see a person that fits this description.

Honestly, I find it odd he'd assume that, since numerous studies have been done on the subject and come to the opposite conclusion.

Nope. Next.

(October 12, 2015 at 8:20 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: agnostic just is the belief that we are not capable of understanding God or completely knowing God . im an agnostic a lot of people who believe in God are also agnostic . einstein was an agnostic deist.

Wrong, agnositcism is the position when asked "Do you believe in god(s)?" one says, "I don't know, come back to me in a few years, and I may have a different answer, if I've found any evidence."* What you are describing is a form of belief in some sort of god, not agnosticism.

* Please note that given the right thought you can be an agnostic theist as easily as being an agnostic atheist, all it takes is the realisation that your belief in god is not proof of god.

(September 26, 2015 at 12:26 am)Heat Wrote: So I read this on a site a while back and was wondering if there is any validity to it.

The site said "Religious people tend to be geniuses/smarter people more often because they can think outside of the box and find loopholes and different scenarios where their claims would still be accurate"

I was wondering if there was any truth to this.

On one hand, the reasoning for believers supposedly being "Smarter" than non-believers actually seems to make sense in this statement(not that it adds any validity to god existing).

On the other hand, i've yet to come in contact, or see a person that fits this description.

I didn't read all the posts, about half.  I heard that atheists know more about religion than theist.  I would think it would be the opposite, sort of like they say junkies have a higher IQ.  Then, it isn't too smart to shoot up heroin.  Also, someone said "can one believe the study anyhow?", it all depends on what smart, educated, and IQ are.

Evidence actually suggests the contrary. But I don't like pulling the intelligence card against theists. It's like pulling the intelligence card to justify racism by arguing that some races score lower on IQ tests. If that was true, asians would be the supreme master race.

(September 26, 2015 at 12:39 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: It might mean they're more creative, but that is only one aspect of intelligence.

It's like assuming a very tall man must be good at basketball.

I would think one would be deemed creative if they wrote a work of fiction, not admired one(let alone holding it to be real - that's what we call madness/stupidity).

This is complete bullshit. I can assure you, OP. You're not more intelligent, in any circumstance, by virtue of being close-minded, dogmatic and part of a creed. You're exactly the opposite because of and concerning those things.

I wonder if the subconscious of religious people knows that they benefit from their belief, and so they don't put a lot thought into it.  It certainly seems to me that many atheists find a way to rationalize keeping a lot of the 'good parts' of religion in a way that I find questionable.  Perhaps this is evolutionary rather than an intelligence issue.  


Just a door with a do not disturb sign on it in the mind that protects a lot of false ideas.

An interesting thing to look at would be the role religion plays in intelligent religious people's lives, and whether or not what they get out of it generally outweighs what it is costing them by believing in something pretend.

(October 16, 2015 at 5:23 pm)Constable Dorfl Wrote:

(October 12, 2015 at 8:20 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: agnostic just is the belief that we are not capable of understanding God or completely knowing God . im an agnostic a lot of people who believe in God are also agnostic . einstein was an agnostic deist.

Wrong, agnositcism is the position when asked "Do you believe in god(s)?" one says, "I don't know, come back to me in a few years, and I may have a different answer, if I've found any evidence."* What you are describing is a form of belief in some sort of god, not agnosticism.

* Please note that given the right thought you can be an agnostic theist as easily as being an agnostic atheist, all it takes is the realisation that your belief in god is not proof of god.

Agnostic is a question as to what you know, Atheism is a question to what you believe.

Do I know if there is no god? No, no one can, therefore I am agnostic.

Do I actively believe in a god? No, I have no credible reason to believe in one, there fore I am an atheist.

And thus, Agnostic Atheist.