(December 12, 2015 at 3:50 pm)Evie Wrote:I make all my choices on the basis that Free Will does exist, so it is kind of hard to actually implement the belief of free will not existing, which is exactly why I believe it exists despite evidence that it may not.(December 12, 2015 at 3:23 pm)Amine Wrote: That seems to me to be different from simply wanting to believe in it. How would your choices be more limited if you didn't believe you had free will?
Personally I think that if he thinks he can believe something "because he wants to" he misunderstands how belief actually works.
Either he is convinced by the idea of "free will" or he isn't. Besides Contra-causal free will is logically incoherent and compatabilist free will is redundant and misleading.
He's probably confusing determinism with fatalism. He is just as open to all choices without a belief in free will, provided that he is not a fatalist.
I'm sure you agree, but it would be fascinating if you don't. Hope you don't mind me chipping in, I do this
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A "Transhumanist"?!
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(December 12, 2015 at 4:05 pm)Shining_Finger Wrote: I make all my choices on the basis that Free Will does exist, so it is kind of hard to actually implement the belief of free will not existing, which is exactly why I believe it exists despite evidence that it may not. If you have no evidence for it existing how exactly do you believe it? Hoping it exists or behaving as if it does isn't the same as believing it. RE: A "Transhumanist"?!
December 12, 2015 at 4:40 pm
(This post was last modified: December 12, 2015 at 4:45 pm by Amine.)
(December 12, 2015 at 3:15 pm)Evie Wrote: You're welcome. For sure, glad to find similar and provocative minds! I've never really used Skype. Maybe just PM or something? (December 12, 2015 at 3:47 pm)Evie Wrote:(December 12, 2015 at 3:10 pm)Amine Wrote: [...]Emily Ratajkowski[...] Haha yeah, she's my current go-to example of a ridiculously beautiful woman. I dunno if you ever saw the "Blurred Lines" music video, but she was the brunette from that. Protip: there is also a version where she is topless. (December 12, 2015 at 3:50 pm)Evie Wrote:(December 12, 2015 at 3:23 pm)Amine Wrote: That seems to me to be different from simply wanting to believe in it. How would your choices be more limited if you didn't believe you had free will? Not at all. I see what you are saying about the fatalism, though. A lot of people hear about determinism and immediately think, "well then I would just stay on the couch all day", not understanding that deterministically, they would not actually want to do that. Also, you hear this "choose to believe it" argument from Christians a lot. Recently some woman kept telling me I could just choose to believe in Jesus. I could only insist that if I did that, I would be lying. (December 12, 2015 at 3:49 pm)Quantum Wrote: Welcome! Thanks! My current understanding is that QM replaces billiard-ball-like particles (with individual identities) with the idea of amplitude distributions in configuration space, which are inextricably linked to one another. Which I guess would be why, for instance, the whole "worlds" "split" in MW. RE: A "Transhumanist"?!
December 12, 2015 at 4:45 pm
(This post was last modified: December 12, 2015 at 4:46 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(December 12, 2015 at 4:05 pm)Shining_Finger Wrote: I make all my choices on the basis that Free Will does exist, so it is kind of hard to actually implement the belief of free will not existing, which is exactly why I believe it exists despite evidence that it may not.Unlikely, unless you ask yourself the question "does free will exist" and answer.."yes, yes I think it does" after due consideration every time you pull up to the McDonald's window. I'd be willing to bet you make the vast majority of your decisions without a single thought to the notion of free will. A complete non-issue.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
The only sort of behavior that "free will" belief correlates with, is holding people more responsible than they are. Holding people ultimately and absolutely responsible when they aren't.
I -just- noticed this is an intro thread...and I;m normally a stickler. Disregard any of my previous comments.
Welcome aboard OP.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(December 12, 2015 at 3:59 pm)Shining_Finger Wrote:(December 12, 2015 at 3:23 pm)Amine Wrote: That seems to me to be different from simply wanting to believe in it. How would your choices be more limited if you didn't believe you had free will?If I didn't believe in free will, that could fairly easily lead to a Rabbit Hole where I don't make the right choice because I don't think I can. I do see what you're saying. Believing in determinism means acknowledging there are limitations. I don't try to do things that don't seem to be in my nature anymore, but maybe it would be better if I still did bang my head against that wall, in a sense. Honestly, though, I'd still have to think determinism has better consequences than believing you can do things you probably can't. We have to acknowledge the costs. The time I have saved in no longer attempting to do certain things has led me to further develop those things which are in my nature to do. Specifically, I used to try to have a more active social life because I thought that was what should be. I kept on running into the problem of just not being interested in people, though. I never wanted to hang out. Eventually I just gave up and admitted that I was incapable of doing the same things as other people, and settled for staying home and doing what I always wanted, which is reading and writing about stuff. After so long of that, I feel I've in a sense transcended mediocrity which I would have been doomed to in all areas if I had continued trying to have much of a social life. I would have always been poor at that, and on top of that I would have missed out on the chance to develop what was really my talent. And it gets better still: once I developed my talent more, I began finding people in that particular area who I actually was interested in, thus giving me a social life that wasn't even a burden to keep. My 2 cents on it anyway. RE: A "Transhumanist"?!
December 12, 2015 at 5:11 pm
(This post was last modified: December 12, 2015 at 5:12 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(December 12, 2015 at 5:07 pm)Amine Wrote: I do see what you're saying. Believing in determinism means acknowledging there are limitations. I don't try to do things that don't seem to be in my nature anymore, but maybe it would be better if I still did bang my head against that wall, in a sense. Actually I don't think determinism limits matters at all... even in the slightest, even in a way of being realistic about your options. It merely makes your view of the world more correct. You are still just as able to take gambles and acknowledge multiple possibilities. Yes ultimately there's only one possible future, but no one knows what that future is.... I agree with DD on one point here, the phrase "If determinism is true then the future is inevitable" makes no sense because if determinism is FALSE then the future is inevitable, too. It's a tautologically vacuous concept that "the future is inevitable". There's going to be a future, that's inevitable, regardless of if it is determined. What is not inevitable is any specific future imagined in the sense that we really don't know which conceivable future is in fact determined and does in fact lie ahead of us. |
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