(February 3, 2016 at 3:51 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote:

(February 3, 2016 at 3:13 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Cancer cells are cells from the person themselves. Made up of the same brand of DNA. Destroying a person's cancer cells won't kill that person any more than us shedding our skin cells/etc on a daily basis, does.  A fetus is not a person's cancerous cells. But rather, a separate entity (as evident by having its own unique set of human DNA).... a being of its own, made up of its own cells.

But, that's a different argument from the one I quoted. You claimed that being made of human DNA made something a human being.

By this new argument, you could claim that identical twins are not different people since they have the exact same DNA.

Being an entity made up of its own set of human DNA makes you a human being. My arm is made up of human DNA, but it's part of my body. It isn't in itself a human being.

(February 3, 2016 at 4:00 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(February 3, 2016 at 3:51 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: But, that's a different argument from the one I quoted. You claimed that being made of human DNA made something a human being.

By this new argument, you could claim that identical twins are not different people since they have the exact same DNA.

Being an entity made up of its own set of human DNA makes you a human being. My arm is made up of human DNA, but it's part of my body. It isn't in itself a human being.

Does a fetus conduct its own life processes? Does it breath? How does it eat? How does it manage waste disposal?

What, do you mean it would all be connected directly to your own digestive tract?

Looks like a technical parasite to me, and I would not force anyone to have parasites riding her unless she really, really wanted it. It takes this to make it something more, while it's still existing that way.

(February 3, 2016 at 1:10 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(February 3, 2016 at 12:44 am)Aroura Wrote: @CL, I have a question.  Do you agree with the church that women can never have authority over man?
If so, why?

The reasons the church gives are because is says so in the bible. The reasons the bible gives are because women are inherently less able and less godly than men. It also claims that women who make any attempt to teach in a church of god are "deceptive", "deluded", "blasphemous", "puffed up", "heretical", "shameless", etc.

Do you agree with this?

The Catholic Church admits all of this on its own answers page:
Women and the Priesthood

p.s. This question occurred to me reading your responses in another thread, but I did not want to clutter up that thread.  It seemed better suited here.  If this isn't the place, I can ask elsewhere.

What teaching are you referring to? The school principle of my Catholic grade school was a woman, and she was the boss to a few male teachers. There's nothing in Church teaching that says woman can never have authority over men. 

As for women being priests, the way it was explained to me is that the Church does not have the authority to ordain women as priests because only men have the ability to bring forth spiritual life. Much like only women can bring physical life (being pregnant and giving birth). It isn't because men are better than women or women are better than men... but rather that they each have a different role when it comes to the life giving aspect of God's plan for us. 

By the way "Catholic Answers" is a very traditional, conservative site. I'm not saying they give incorrect answers. The answers they give are correct, but the way it is worded, the way it is put together, and the reasons they give are pretty much the more conservative approach to everything. Kind of like Fox News covering a specific story... the facts they give may be correct, but the way things are put together definitely "lean" a certain way. For a more objective look at Church teaching, see the Catechism.

BTW, thank you for answering. :
I have more questions, but I don't want to come off as a biotch or all passive aggressive.  And anyway, I think I've got the gist.

(February 4, 2016 at 2:18 am)Aroura Wrote:

(February 3, 2016 at 1:10 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: What teaching are you referring to? The school principle of my Catholic grade school was a woman, and she was the boss to a few male teachers. There's nothing in Church teaching that says woman can never have authority over men. 

As for women being priests, the way it was explained to me is that the Church does not have the authority to ordain women as priests because only men have the ability to bring forth spiritual life. Much like only women can bring physical life (being pregnant and giving birth). It isn't because men are better than women or women are better than men... but rather that they each have a different role when it comes to the life giving aspect of God's plan for us. 

By the way "Catholic Answers" is a very traditional, conservative site. I'm not saying they give incorrect answers. The answers they give are correct, but the way it is worded, the way it is put together, and the reasons they give are pretty much the more conservative approach to everything. Kind of like Fox News covering a specific story... the facts they give may be correct, but the way things are put together definitely "lean" a certain way. For a more objective look at Church teaching, see the Catechism.

BTW, thank you for answering. :
I have more questions, but I don't want to come off as a biotch or all passive aggressive.  And anyway, I think I've got the gist.

No problem! And I wouldn't think that of you. 

(February 4, 2016 at 2:17 am)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote:

(February 3, 2016 at 4:00 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Being an entity made up of its own set of human DNA makes you a human being. My arm is made up of human DNA, but it's part of my body. It isn't in itself a human being.

Does a fetus conduct its own life processes? Does it breath? How does it eat? How does it manage waste disposal?

What, do you mean it would all be connected directly to your own digestive tract?

Looks like a technical parasite to me, and I would not force anyone to have parasites riding her unless she really, really wanted it. It takes this to make it something more, while it's still existing that way.

We're not parasites, we're humans. That is how humans spend the first 9 months of their existence.

Hey CL. Not to get all medical on you but not all fetuses will ever live to be considered human, and they have our DNA (entity made up of its own set of human DNA). They are defects. Some chromosome abnormalities, some not but a complication of the gestation process. Look up acardius-acephalus or anencephaly. And these are just two of many. I can PM a path web site if you would like to see/know more.

I am familiar. I don't think defects, no matter how severe they are, can take away humanity.

(February 3, 2016 at 4:00 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(February 3, 2016 at 3:51 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: But, that's a different argument from the one I quoted. You claimed that being made of human DNA made something a human being.

By this new argument, you could claim that identical twins are not different people since they have the exact same DNA.

(February 3, 2016 at 4:00 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Being an entity made up of its own set of human DNA makes you a human being.

(emphasis is mine)
But, this was not your original claim...

(February 3, 2016 at 12:39 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: If you are comprised of human DNA, you are a biological human being, whether you have the ability to feel pain or not, imho.

(emphasis is mine)
This is the claim I was responding to

(February 3, 2016 at 12:39 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: My arm is made up of human DNA, but it's part of my body. It isn't in itself a human being.

By the claim you originally made, yes your arm would be a human being. Unless, you're shifting the goal posts?

If an arm, or a tumor, or the hair we unceremoniously leave on the salon floor aren't examples of human beings, then why is a fetus, a clone or an identical twin any different?

---

You also never answered (or I missed it) my question about forcing people to have other people hooked up to them as a form of dialysis. Since the right to life trumps all other rights...

If I missed it, please do point it out.

(February 4, 2016 at 8:04 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I am familiar. I don't think defects, no matter how severe they are, can take away humanity.

No, but they can fuck up a whole family's enjoyment of their lives, and create a burden to the community that will have to provide care for them.  Are your dreams for the future of a bunch of cells with no nervous system really worth all of that?

(February 4, 2016 at 9:34 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: (emphasis is mine)
But, this was not your original claim...

(February 3, 2016 at 12:39 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: If you are comprised of human DNA, you are a biological human being, whether you have the ability to feel pain or not, imho.

(emphasis is mine)
This is the claim I was responding to

(February 3, 2016 at 12:39 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: My arm is made up of human DNA, but it's part of my body. It isn't in itself a human being.

By the claim you originally made, yes your arm would be a human being. Unless, you're shifting the goal posts?

If an arm, or a tumor, or the hair we unceremoniously leave on the salon floor aren't examples of human beings, then why is a fetus, a clone or an identical twin any different?

---

You also never answered (or I missed it) my question about forcing people to have other people hooked up to them as a form of dialysis. Since the right to life trumps all other rights...

If I missed it, please do point it out.

Well that is what I meant. I thought it was implied.