(February 14, 2016 at 12:38 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Speaking as a big, brawny (former) thug with a (former) propensity for violence, a firearm is unlikely to stop such a person, unless the gun holder is trained.  Even training doesn't always guarantee success.  You know how many soldiers in a platoon actually fire their weapons during a firefight?  Six.  More likely three - the rest freeze up.  

I've been shot at twice in my life (never hit) and the fact that my opponent had a firearm didn't make the least bit of difference.  Furthermore, the odds of my sharing a house with a Green Beret twice my size who has PTSD are so slim as to be laughable.


Stoopid fucking argument.

Boru

Got any proof that I would not learn to shoot faster than I would learn to take down a delusional attacker of twice my size with my own fists?

In the absence of either option being untenable, where police protection is insufficient, then what? Oh, then why would the real-life physical bully who bullies people all over this forum as well give a shit about equalizing our society anyway? It's not even "our" society, with you being the non-American who just has to throw his weight at a society which he knows so little of.

(February 14, 2016 at 11:43 am)Gawdzilla Wrote: Why shouldn't we be concerned about having an armed person among us?

You can piss in your panties if you want. It doesn't bother me a bit.

I'm just saying that you won't know that I am armed as it is concealed. You don't have to piss your pants around me as you will be blissfully ignorant.

(February 14, 2016 at 12:48 pm)KUSA Wrote:

(February 14, 2016 at 11:43 am)Gawdzilla Wrote: Why shouldn't we be concerned about having an armed person among us?

You can piss in your panties if you want. It doesn't bother me a bit.

I'm just saying that you won't know that I am armed as it is concealed. You don't have to piss your pants around me as you will be blissfully ignorant.

Seriously? You don't sound like a person who is safe around firearms.

(February 14, 2016 at 12:49 pm)Gawdzilla Wrote:

(February 14, 2016 at 12:48 pm)KUSA Wrote: You can piss in your panties if you want. It doesn't bother me a bit.

I'm just saying that you won't know that I am armed as it is concealed. You don't have to piss your pants around me as you will be blissfully ignorant.

Seriously? You don't sound like a person who is safe around firearms.

Seriously, you do not sound like a person who is safe around keyboards.

(February 13, 2016 at 1:32 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote: The bow isn't much different, so why not ban the bow?

It is illegal to hunt with a bow and arrow in the UK.

(February 14, 2016 at 12:49 pm)Gawdzilla Wrote:

(February 14, 2016 at 12:48 pm)KUSA Wrote: You can piss in your panties if you want. It doesn't bother me a bit.

I'm just saying that you won't know that I am armed as it is concealed. You don't have to piss your pants around me as you will be blissfully ignorant.

Seriously? You don't sound like a person who is safe around firearms.

No one is safe around firearms, that's kind of the point of them.

(February 14, 2016 at 12:54 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(February 14, 2016 at 12:49 pm)Gawdzilla Wrote: Seriously? You don't sound like a person who is safe around firearms.

No one is safe around firearms, that's kind of the point of them.

I agree. Gunny taught me that a few decades ago.

(February 14, 2016 at 12:53 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(February 13, 2016 at 1:32 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote: The bow isn't much different, so why not ban the bow?

It is illegal to hunt with a bow and arrow in the UK.

I don't even hunt, but this really makes me glad I don't live in the UK!

Quote:Got any proof that I would not learn to shoot faster than I would learn to take down a delusional attacker of twice my size with my own fists?

None whatsoever. But learning to use a firearm isn't the same as actually using one.

Quote: In the absence of either option being untenable, where police protection is insufficient, then what?

Then nothing. I'm just pointing out that your argument about a gun being sure fire protection (pun intended) from an unarmed attacker is unsupported. People panic, they freeze up. In both instances where I was faced with firearms, I was able to take the weapon away from my attacker and beat each one to something resembling a pulp. Granted, had they been cool, calm and collected, they could have dropped me like a bad habit. But they weren't and they didn't.

Quote:Oh, then why would the real-life physical bully who bullies people all over this forum as well give a shit about equalizing our society anyway? It's not even "our" society, with you being the non-American who just has to throw his weight at a society which he knows so little of.

If you're intimating that I am - or ever have been - a bully, you're grossly mistaken. If I take the rest of your comment correctly, I'm not attempting to change the American gun culture, merely pointing out the flaws of a system where very nearly anyone who wants one can acquire a firearm with little or no training or safety precautions, and the specious reasons for being allowed to do so.

For what it's worth, there is a LOT of private gun ownership in New Zealand, yet our gun-related deaths are miniscule compared to those in the US.

Boru

(February 14, 2016 at 1:10 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

Quote:Got any proof that I would not learn to shoot faster than I would learn to take down a delusional attacker of twice my size with my own fists?

None whatsoever.  But learning to use a firearm isn't the same as actually using one.

Quote: In the absence of either option being untenable, where police protection is insufficient, then what?

Then nothing.  I'm just pointing out that your argument about a gun being sure fire protection (pun intended) from an unarmed attacker is unsupported.  People panic, they freeze up.  In both instances where I was faced with firearms, I was able to take the weapon away from my attacker and beat each one to something resembling a pulp.  Granted, had they been cool, calm and collected, they could have dropped me like a bad habit.  But they weren't and they didn't.

Quote:Oh, then why would the real-life physical bully who bullies people all over this forum as well give a shit about equalizing our society anyway? It's not even "our" society, with you being the non-American who just has to throw his weight at a society which he knows so little of.

If you're intimating that I am - or ever have been - a bully, you're grossly mistaken.  If I take the rest of your comment correctly, I'm not attempting to change the American gun culture, merely pointing out the flaws of a system where very nearly anyone who wants one can acquire a firearm with little or no training or safety precautions, and the specious reasons for being allowed to do so.

For what it's worth, there is a LOT of private gun ownership in New Zealand, yet our gun-related deaths are miniscule compared to those in the US.

Boru

I'm in favor of permitting gun ownership, and concealed carry for any American (and anyone in the world, don't see a good reason not to), provided that they undergo a standard and effective training course which deals not only with safe handling, shooting accuracy, and legal education, but also simulated situations which many police training programs use. This may sound like a bit much for the average citizen, but it's probably necessary in order to ensure that the gun actually makes people more safe than vulnerable. It would at least provide the option available to all which they deserve in a civil society, not just for those belonging to the elite club of military personnel and law enforcement officials, especially where the latter are either running rampant with abuse or are just plain absent where they would be theoretically useful. Also, while I generally dislike the privatization of government functions, in this case allowing the administration of training by regulated private enterprise would speed up the process for permit applicants, so that nobody would have to wait a year or more in order to get their training started. It wouldn't hurt the economy in any way either.