(February 14, 2016 at 4:25 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: Training is great but it is hard to predict what people will do when they are scared or angry, we see trained professionals make mistakes with their firearms in different situations.

True in the military, where training is intensive.

My opinion is that you don't fight gun violence by banning guns, I think you have fight factors like poverty, poor health care, and poor working conditions, which in turn create healthier happier communities. When you work people to death for low wages, stress them out, take away their hope, and then sell them a deadly weapon, you are asking for trouble.

(February 14, 2016 at 4:41 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: My opinion is that you don't fight gun violence by banning guns, I think you have fight factors like poverty, poor health care, and poor working conditions, which in turn create healthier happier communities. When you work people to death for low wages, stress them out, take away their hope, and then sell them a deadly weapon, you are asking for trouble.

I'm all for fighting economic inequality in America, but let's not be stupid and hold out for that getting resolved when people aren't safe right now for being denied an effective means of defending themselves - they don't have decades to wait. Anyway, I thought that Utopia masturbation was equally ideological to religious ideas. If we can improve this world at all, it will likely take many years.

(February 14, 2016 at 4:41 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: My opinion is that you don't fight gun violence by banning guns, I think you have fight factors like poverty, poor health care, and poor working conditions, which in turn create healthier happier communities. When you work people to death for low wages, stress them out, take away their hope, and then sell them a deadly weapon, you are asking for trouble.

That statement makes a lot of sense.

(February 14, 2016 at 5:30 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote:

(February 14, 2016 at 4:41 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: My opinion is that you don't fight gun violence by banning guns, I think you have fight factors like poverty, poor health care, and poor working conditions, which in turn create healthier happier communities. When you work people to death for low wages, stress them out, take away their hope, and then sell them a deadly weapon, you are asking for trouble.

I'm all for fighting economic inequality in America, but let's not be stupid and hold out for that getting resolved when people aren't safe right now for being denied an effective means of defending themselves - they don't have decades to wait. Anyway, I thought that Utopia masturbation was equally ideological to religious ideas. If we can improve this world at all, it will likely take many years.

A utopia will never happen. We can improve conditions. There will always be sickos no matter how good things are though.

(February 14, 2016 at 5:30 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote:

(February 14, 2016 at 4:41 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: My opinion is that you don't fight gun violence by banning guns, I think you have fight factors like poverty, poor health care, and poor working conditions, which in turn create healthier happier communities. When you work people to death for low wages, stress them out, take away their hope, and then sell them a deadly weapon, you are asking for trouble.

I'm all for fighting economic inequality in America, but let's not be stupid and hold out for that getting resolved when people aren't safe right now for being denied an effective means of defending themselves - they don't have decades to wait. Anyway, I thought that Utopia masturbation was equally ideological to religious ideas. If we can improve this world at all, it will likely take many years.

People are denied effective means of protecting themselves? That's a bit over dramatic don't you think? Its not utopia masturbation, I'm not even talking about a utopia. I'm talking about adequate wages, universal health care, access to education, all which are attainable and in fact being used by other countries around the world. It's no secret that happier, healthier, educated people are less likely to shoot themselves or someone else.

(February 14, 2016 at 5:46 pm)KUSA Wrote:

(February 14, 2016 at 5:30 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote: I'm all for fighting economic inequality in America, but let's not be stupid and hold out for that getting resolved when people aren't safe right now for being denied an effective means of defending themselves - they don't have decades to wait. Anyway, I thought that Utopia masturbation was equally ideological to religious ideas. If we can improve this world at all, it will likely take many years.

A utopia will never happen. We can improve conditions. There will always be sickos no matter how good things are though.

There will surely always be greedy fuckers.

You won't get the hard numbers on how many of those hundreds of millions of guns have actually been used to defend somebody. Or how many have killed the people they were bought to protect.

(February 14, 2016 at 5:48 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote:

(February 14, 2016 at 5:30 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote: I'm all for fighting economic inequality in America, but let's not be stupid and hold out for that getting resolved when people aren't safe right now for being denied an effective means of defending themselves - they don't have decades to wait. Anyway, I thought that Utopia masturbation was equally ideological to religious ideas. If we can improve this world at all, it will likely take many years.

People are denied effective means of protecting themselves? That's a bit over dramatic don't you think? Its not utopia masturbation, I'm not even talking about a utopia. I'm talking about adequate wages, universal health care, access to education, all which are attainable and in fact being used by other countries around the world. It's no secret that happier, healthier, educated people are less likely to shoot themselves or someone else.

Sorry, didn't really mean to accuse you of masturbation, just trying to get us off that slippery slope which leads to ignoring a very real problem which could likely be resolved this year if good sense prevailed for the distraction of a goal which, if not unrealistic can only be solved in part, will take many years to do that much, and do nothing to help those who will become legally defenseless if the liberals in Congress get what they are working full tilt to force on them.

(February 14, 2016 at 12:38 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Speaking as a big, brawny (former) thug with a (former) propensity for violence, a firearm is unlikely to stop such a person, unless the gun holder is trained.  Even training doesn't always guarantee success.  You know how many soldiers in a platoon actually fire their weapons during a firefight?  Six.  More likely three - the rest freeze up.  

I've been shot at twice in my life (never hit) and the fact that my opponent had a firearm didn't make the least bit of difference. Furthermore, the odds of my sharing a house with a Green Beret twice my size who has PTSD are so slim as to be laughable.


Stoopid fucking argument.

Boru

Indeed. I read somewhere that an attacker can cover 21 feet in the time it takes to draw and unsafe a weapon.

Guns for personal defense rely as much on intimidation as on the ability to maim or kill the attacker ... if not more so.