(April 11, 2016 at 7:09 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(April 11, 2016 at 7:01 pm)Goosebump Wrote: So it's completely unacceptable for some women to have discomfort even with the stalls occasionally; but completely acceptable for transgender women to feel so always when going to a public restroom?

Again, it's a crappy situation for both parties involved, this is why suggested the option of a third bathroom as the ideal scenario. But if we're gonna talk about which situation effects the least amount of people, then I'd say there are many more women in the world than there are transgender women.

I'd argue one women having a low probability of even one of these encounters AND having the uncomfortable-ness about it is far less then the certainty of all trans gender women feeling uncomfortable every-time they are forced to use the men's room. 

So which one is to be prevented? The occasional low probability of discomfort in a large population, or the certainty of always having discomfort in a smaller population?

(April 11, 2016 at 2:19 pm)Yeauxleaux Wrote: For someone with gender dysphoria, "positive self-acceptance" is naturally very difficult, perhaps impossible. Maybe hormone treatments and SRS are the best option? Not everyone can "positively accept themselves", and while it's ideal sometimes it just isn't the answer.

I hope you are someone who accepts himself. Because I, for one, think you are the boss.

I know it’s hard when the people you love don’t except you. Even though with me it’s not a gender/sexuality thing, I think it’s the same feeling when my mother, whom I love, blames me for not allowing god to heal my disabilities. People who were born deaf often see deafness as a cultural phenomenon rather than a medical issue. They see themselves as big D, and call me a little d.

I don’t have the option of saying, “Oh, I’m not strong enough to deal with the social opposition so I’ll just stop being disabled and act like normal people.”

“Let me see,” said the blind carpenter as he picked up his hammer and saw.

Share the joy of life YL. It’s hard, but it’s not impossible.

Are we ready to expand the thread into the realm of ambiguous genitalia ??

If we weren't I guess we better be now heh.

(April 11, 2016 at 7:16 pm)Goosebump Wrote:

(April 11, 2016 at 7:09 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Again, it's a crappy situation for both parties involved, this is why suggested the option of a third bathroom as the ideal scenario. But if we're gonna talk about which situation effects the least amount of people, then I'd say there are many more women in the world than there are transgender women.

I'd argue one women having a low probability of even one of these encounters AND having the uncomfortable-ness about it is far less then the certainty of all trans gender women feeling uncomfortable every-time they are forced to use the men's room. 

So which one is to be prevented? The occasional low probability of discomfort in a large population, or the certainty of always having discomfort in a smaller population?

I think in this case the effect would be less that would effect less people. Also, what makes you think it's a low probability for a woman to feel uncomfortable if a physical man walked into their bathroom/lockerroom? But again, the solution to this should be to make a 3rd bathroom.

CL, if you are a business owner or institution renting space for $30 or more per square foot a third bathroom is useless overhead. It solves an emotional problem for .03 percent of the population at the financial expense of everyone served by that business or institution. Good intentions aren't free.

(April 11, 2016 at 7:34 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Good intentions aren't free.

Stated the Christian.

(April 11, 2016 at 5:44 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I agree that unless you have a penis, you should not go into a woman's bathroom/lockerroom, and vice versa. For one, if we allow anyone to go into any bathroom/lockerromm so long as they say "I identify with this sex", this opens the doors to fakes who are sexual predators. Second, even though bathrooms wouldn't be as big of a deal for me personally, I respect that there are women who understandably are not comfortable with it. As for lockerrooms, I'm sorry but I would not feel comfortable with a man going in there while I'm in there changing/showering/etc... even if he did say he identified as female. I have no problem with a 3rd option of "gender neutral" bathroom/lockerrooms though. 

I do think there is a difference between intervening when someone is upset and trying to hurt themselves, and intervening when someone has gone through therapy and has decided to go under the knife for extensive surgery. At that point I see it as them being under the care of professionals and doctors, and though I may not agree that it's the healthiest course of action, I would not feel like it is in my authority to stop it from happening. 

The point where the lines may get blurred though, is when we are dealing with people who "feel" they should be blind/deaf/legless/armless/etc. There really are people out there who feel they are in the wrong body and that they should be in the body of someone who is blind, or an amputee or something. Should doctors help them out with that by blinding them? Or cutting off their legs? Obviously the answer is no. But then the question is, how is this different then, from a man who feels he should be a woman and wants to get his penis cut off? If we are being completely objective here, how is this different? I think the difference is that a person who undergoes sex change surgery is still able to function completely properly and normally with all their body parts (at least outside of the bedroom, but inside is not our business).... unlike the person who is unable to see because they had their eyes poked out by a doctor or something. Thoughts?

This XX man is required to go to the women's restroom by law.

http://www.advocate.com/sites/advocate.c...e-x400.jpg



 He, and really he is obviously a he, probably does have some kind of a penis.  It's none of our business whether he does or doesnt. But he really doesn't belong in the ladies room  Laws requiring him to use the women's room are either bigoted, ignorant,  or both.  If you want me to share a restroom with him, I'm not exactly frightened  but I can't  figure out why you'd feel safer if if shares a room with us.. He is not comfortablein the ladies, and I cannot see see any man worry about him in the mens.

(April 11, 2016 at 7:34 pm)Goosebump Wrote: If we weren't I guess we better be now heh.

Oh, that's better.  Had to go over to Tumblr and clear my palette, so to speak.

Ain't no ambiguous genitalia at F       ERF      ERS, that's for sure . . . .

 

Curious though, most all the guys I'm looking at on Tumblr would be pretty safe for the ladyfolk to share a biffy with . . .

(April 11, 2016 at 7:34 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: CL, if you are a business owner or institution renting space for $30 or more per square foot a third bathroom is useless overhead. It solves an emotional problem for .03 percent of the population at the financial expense of everyone served by that business or institution. Good intentions aren't free.

I still think it would be a good idea to have a small private bathroom. Not only for transgender folks who haven't done reassignment yet, but for people with other difficult circumstances. Like perhaps a mother with a fully grown son who has down syndrome and can't use the bathroom alone.