(April 11, 2016 at 8:45 pm)The_Empress Wrote:

(April 11, 2016 at 8:42 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: You're absolutely right. I am discriminating physical men (regardless of gender identity) from using women's bathrooms and lockerrooms. And I have 0 problem with that.

Then I have 0 problem calling you a bigot.

I'm not so sure that she's a bigot. I don't think she has any malice or dislike towards transgender people. I just think she's unwilling to compromise a little bit of discomfort from the "skeevies" she has about dicks in her bathroom to make others feel more comfortable, not completely, just a little more.

I think she's just selfish.

(April 11, 2016 at 8:45 pm)The_Empress Wrote:

(April 11, 2016 at 8:42 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: You're absolutely right. I am discriminating physical men (regardless of gender identity) from using women's bathrooms and lockerrooms. And I have 0 problem with that.

Then I have 0 problem calling you a bigot.

Physical men (including the ones who identify as women) shouldn't use a women's bathroom/lockerroom because it makes a lot of women feel uncomfortable, and instead they should have the option of using a gender neutral bathroom so that no one feels uncomfortable. If that makes me a bigot in your eyes, then so be it. I already knew you didn't like me anyway.

(April 11, 2016 at 8:52 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(April 11, 2016 at 8:45 pm)The_Empress Wrote: Then I have 0 problem calling you a bigot.

Physical men (including the ones who identify as women) shouldn't use a women's bathroom/lockerroom because it makes a lot of women feel uncomfortable, and instead they should have the option of using a gender neutral bathroom so that no one feels uncomfortable. If that makes me a bigot in your eyes, then so be it. I already knew you didn't like me anyway.

***emphasis mine***

Unless you show some data on the "a lot" all you can claim is that it makes you or "some" uncomfortable. You can't claim the majority without showing it to be so.

(April 11, 2016 at 8:48 pm)Maelstrom Wrote:

(April 11, 2016 at 8:43 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Ok. And mine is until physical change via surgery. Doesn't sound like you and I are too far off.

That is why we both agree there must be a an alternative restroom, non gender specific, which most public places do have now.

However, I must ask, you do agree that it would be absolutely silly to ask a man transitioning into a woman to use the men's restroom.  If women do not want her in their restroom, and men don't want her in their restroom, you do understand where this is going, correct?

Also, a man transitioning into a woman having to use the men's room is quite possibly more uncomfortable than you could ever feel having her in your restroom.

I personally just think it's silly for a man who looks like a stereotypical man to use a woman's toilet area and not expect some kind of reaction from people around and for it to be considered practical.

I know people think it's paranoid to be wary of who's going to be sharing your toilet cubicle but it is justified sometimes.  In my city there's so many incidents of public toilets being used for sexual purposes by men security guards have even posted signs up warning people about it, I've even witnessed a glory hole in one toilets I used and I know several guys who have caught homosexuals having sex in toilets. Knowing what I know about how much more aggressively perverse men can be than women in general,  I don't blame women for being wary about men using the same toilet area as them.

It really depends on what stage this transitioned person is and how much they still look like a man and how practical it is for them to go barging into a woman's toilets.

(April 11, 2016 at 8:48 pm)Maelstrom Wrote:

(April 11, 2016 at 8:43 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Ok. And mine is until physical change via surgery. Doesn't sound like you and I are too far off.

That is why we both agree there must be a an alternative restroom, non gender specific, which most public places do have now.

However, I must ask, you do agree that it would be absolutely silly to ask a man transitioning into a woman to use the men's restroom.  If women do not want her in their restroom, and men don't want her in their restroom, you do understand where this is going, correct?

I do think it would be silly. That's why I think there should be an alternative restroom. 

Quote:Also, a man transitioning into a woman having to use the men's room is quite possibly more uncomfortable than you could ever feel having her in your restroom.

I actually don't feel uncomfortable with a physical man who identifies as a woman in the same public bathroom as me. Only in  the same lockerroom when I need to change clothes or take a shower. Even if hormone therapy has started, I wouldn't feel comfortable in this situation unless the sex change was completed.

(April 11, 2016 at 8:54 pm)Goosebump Wrote:

(April 11, 2016 at 8:52 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Physical men (including the ones who identify as women) shouldn't use a women's bathroom/lockerroom because it makes a lot of women feel uncomfortable, and instead they should have the option of using a gender neutral bathroom so that no one feels uncomfortable. If that makes me a bigot in your eyes, then so be it. I already knew you didn't like me anyway.

***emphasis mine***

Unless you show some data on the "a lot" all you can claim is that it makes you or "some" uncomfortable. You can't claim the majority without showing it to be so.

I didn't claim a majority.

(April 11, 2016 at 8:58 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

(April 11, 2016 at 8:48 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: That is why we both agree there must be a an alternative restroom, non gender specific, which most public places do have now.

However, I must ask, you do agree that it would be absolutely silly to ask a man transitioning into a woman to use the men's restroom.  If women do not want her in their restroom, and men don't want her in their restroom, you do understand where this is going, correct?

Also, a man transitioning into a woman having to use the men's room is quite possibly more uncomfortable than you could ever feel having her in your restroom.

I personally just think it's silly for a man who looks like a stereotypical man to use a woman's toilet area and not expect some kind of reaction from people around and for it to be considered practical.

I know people think it's paranoid to be wary of who's going to be sharing your toilet cubicle but it is justified sometimes.  In my city there's so many incidents of public toilets being used for sexual purposes by men security guards have even posted signs up warning people about it, I've even witnessed a glory hole in one toilets I used and I know several guys who have caught homosexuals having sex in toilets. Knowing what I know about how much more aggressively perverse men can be than women in general,  I don't blame women for being wary about men using the same toilet area as them.

It really depends on what stage this transitioned person is and how much they still look like a man and how practical it is for them to go barging into a woman's toilets.

Discrimination, you prejudiced bigot! 

(April 11, 2016 at 8:59 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(April 11, 2016 at 8:54 pm)Goosebump Wrote: ***emphasis mine***

Unless you show some data on the "a lot" all you can claim is that it makes you or "some" uncomfortable. You can't claim the majority without showing it to be so.

I didn't claim a majority.

My mistake, I don't want to get into semantics.

Have a good one.

(April 11, 2016 at 8:54 pm)Goosebump Wrote:

(April 11, 2016 at 8:52 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Physical men (including the ones who identify as women) shouldn't use a women's bathroom/lockerroom because it makes a lot of women feel uncomfortable, and instead they should have the option of using a gender neutral bathroom so that no one feels uncomfortable. If that makes me a bigot in your eyes, then so be it. I already knew you didn't like me anyway.

***emphasis mine***

Unless you show some data on the "a lot" all you can claim is that it makes you or "some" uncomfortable. You can't claim the majority without showing it to be so.

People can talk from experience without having data related to the entire worlds population of women.  A lack of data on this topic just means that no scientist has done world wide research on how a woman feels when a man is in the toilet with her.  Besides a test like that would be pretty much impossible to test, the women could lie about how uncomfortable or comfortable they feel.

While drunk I've accidentally gone into the female toilets around two times and both times I was told to get out before I took two steps inside.  I know several women who aren't even comfortable going to gyms because of the way they get stared at and this is probably the reason they have separate gym areas for women in a lot of gyms.  I can't scientifically prove it no, but I'm quite comfortable saying a lot of women I know don't like to share their toilet area with men.

(April 11, 2016 at 8:58 pm)paulpablo Wrote: It really depends on what stage this transitioned person is and how much they still look like a man and how practical it is for them to go barging into a woman's toilets.

I think this is part of the problem. The way it's seen. I can't imagine somebody going threw transitional shit would be oh so confident to "barge" into much, let alone a bathroom.