(April 11, 2016 at 8:42 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: You're absolutely right. I am discriminating physical men (regardless of gender identity) from using women's bathrooms and lockerrooms. And I have 0 problem with that.

Except that the people you are discriminating against are women with partially male bodies.

(April 11, 2016 at 8:43 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Ok. And mine is until physical change via surgery. Doesn't sound like you and I are too far off.

This is typical of the right wing obsession about genitalia.

Let's take a male to female transsexual. They have breasts. They have smooth skin. Their muscles are weaker from the effects of the hormones. They have removed facial hair. They are seen as female, treated as female, subject to the same sexual discrimination and have the same hopes, feelings, aspirations, sexuality and mannerisms as a woman.

Yet for reasons beyond their control they are not able to have full sexual reassignment to cut off the balls, and invert the penis into a vagina even though they would desperately want that and are doing everything in their power to do it. And this is a penis that is likely to not even become erect because of the effect of hormones.

And you know that a penis can be hidden right? It's possible for a pre-operative transsexual to wear a bikini in a public swimming pool and for no one to even notice.

But you would call this person a man and insist that they use the male toilets.

(April 12, 2016 at 5:50 am)Yeauxleaux Wrote: Tbh if I was a biological woman who was turning into a man I'd stay using the female toilets.

It might look that simple from up close: Use the women's bathroom, and you'll be safe.

But I dare you to have that same attitude when every time you walk in there, you have this instant feeling of being not welcome. You are met with stares, or mean looks. Or someone tells you to get out. Or some lady walks in and asks if she walked into the incorrect bathroom. Or some little kid loudly asks their mom why there is a man in the bathroom. Or this large crowd of girls bust out laughing when you walk out. And you think to yourself, "Huh, maybe this just would've been easier if I used the guy's."

You are forgetting: no one is going to see your genitals when you go in there. All they will see is the gender you're passing as, and judge you as male or female based upon that surface visual information. And if you're getting more sir's than ma'am's, more he's than she's, you can guarantee that the female bathroom will not be an easier ride.

How would we even know if they were fully transitioned? I mean, are we going to stop transexual individuals at the bathroom door and ask them to show us the goods?

Let me mention that not all trans women want to immediately get their genitals chopped off when transitioning, or ever. It's a highly personal decision with many factors.

(April 12, 2016 at 5:01 am)BrokenQuill92 Wrote: Maybe I have some residual issues I need to work through but I simply don't like the idea of using same restroom a someone who is physically male. Intellectually, I fully know, quite well  no one  is likely to do anything to me, and we all just need to go potty but I still don't like any of this. Forget giving trans people their own restroom, I want an Alaina room at all the public places I frequent.

Yeah but in all probability you have been to the same toilets as a transsexual and not even known it.

Does that now creep you out? Why?

(April 12, 2016 at 8:33 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: How would we even know if they were fully transitioned?  I mean, are we going to stop transexual individuals at the bathroom door and ask them to show us the goods?

That's if you even recognise them. You'd have to stop all the cisgendered women that don't strictly conform to society's gender roles of appearance. Oh that woman is wearing trousers and has relatively short hair. Better give them an invasive inspection of their crotch. Oh sorry ma'am I didn't realise that you were a butch dyke.

Not to mention all the intersex people or those born with ambiguous genitalia.

(April 12, 2016 at 8:39 am)Alex K Wrote: Let me mention that not all trans women want to immediately get their genitals chopped off when transitioning, or ever. It's a highly personal decision with many factors.

Right, so it's pretty unfair to draw a "line" somewhere for these people where society at large decides when they are "woman-enough" to be in a woman's restroom.

I think the bathroom sexual assault thing is way overblown as well. I am not interested in putting any woman in harms way, but sexual predators are opportunists by nature. If someone is interested in rape they will find a way to rape.

(April 12, 2016 at 8:48 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(April 12, 2016 at 8:33 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: How would we even know if they were fully transitioned?  I mean, are we going to stop transexual individuals at the bathroom door and ask them to show us the goods?

That's if you even recognise them. You'd have to stop all the cisgendered women that don't strictly conform to society's gender roles of appearance. Oh that woman is wearing trousers and has relatively short hair. Better give them an invasive inspection of their crotch. Oh sorry ma'am I didn't realise that you were a butch dyke.

Not to mention all the intersex people or those born with ambiguous genitalia.

Lol, right! It'd be like the TSA for public restrooms!

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