(April 14, 2016 at 8:39 pm)Jenny A Wrote:

(April 14, 2016 at 6:57 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: By the way, this is the type of stuff I'm referring to. Fakes who might falsely claim transgenderism and peep into women's bathrooms and lockerrooms.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/...34761.html

Seriously.  Do you really think he was encouraged by transgenderism?  I think he was an ordinary garden variety pervert who would be saddened and possibly even detered by unisex bathrooms. They would make bathrooms as unexciting as the rest of the world. Whatever he was he's rather rarer than transgenders.

You guys are missing the point. I never said this was encouraged by transgederism.

I don't understand how allowing people of the opposite biological sex would encourage perversion. Isn't biological sex completely irrelevant to perversion?

(April 14, 2016 at 9:03 pm)Evie Wrote: I don't understand how allowing people of the opposite biological sex would encourage perversion. Isn't biological sex completely irrelevant to perversion?

Well, my argument applies to physical sex, not just biological sex. This does not apply to people who have had a sex change. Those people, by all means, can and should use the bathroom that matches their identity.

As for the rest, again, it wouldn't "encourage it." I never used that word and it's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, it would make it easier for the perv to pull off going into women's restrooms.  Because then he wouldn't even need to look like a woman. He could just put on some lipstick and padded bra and walk right into a women's bathroom or lockerroom. And no one would question it because they would just assume he's a trans.

Isn't physical and biological sex the same thing?

Aren't there just as many female perverts as male perverts?

(April 14, 2016 at 9:03 pm)Evie Wrote: I don't understand how allowing people of the opposite biological sex would encourage perversion. Isn't biological sex completely irrelevant to perversion?

So, I think CL's point is that once male offenders know that transgendered individuals are allowed to use the bathroom of their choosing, they may use this allowance to gain easier access to women's bathrooms without arousing as much suspicion (correct me if I didn't summarize you properly, Cath). I suppose it MIGHT be true that others would be less suspicious, but it might not be. I don't think there is a case for that assumption beyond, "well, it seems like it might be that way." I think most people would do a double take if they were to encounter someone of the opposite sex in the bathroom with them, no matter what the law says.

And again, sex offenders with a will to offend, will eventually find a way to offend. If a rapist wants to, but simply CAN'T skate into the women's room unnoticed in order to victimize someone, he'll most likely seek out an easier circumstance and victimize someone else. Or, he can ditch the women's clothes in the trash, hide in waiting until the wee hours of the night, and pounce on an unsuspecting woman headed into the bathroom alone. Which hypothetical is "easier" for the rapist?

I just don't see a case here for denying transgendered individuals access to their gender-identified bathroom. And how would we realistically determine who has had complete surgery and who hasn't?

I don't see how it would increase sex offences what bathroom anyone is allowed in.

* Edwardo Piet shrugs

(April 14, 2016 at 9:14 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(April 14, 2016 at 9:03 pm)Evie Wrote: I don't understand how allowing people of the opposite biological sex would encourage perversion. Isn't biological sex completely irrelevant to perversion?

Well, my argument applies to physical sex, not just biological sex. This does not apply to people who have had a sex change. Those people, by all means, can and should use the bathroom that matches their identity.

As for the rest, again, it wouldn't "encourage it." I never used that word and it's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, it would make it easier for the perv to pull off going into women's restrooms.  Because then he wouldn't even need to look like a woman. He could just put on some lipstick and padded bra and walk right into a women's bathroom or lockerroom. And no one would question it because they would just assume he's a trans.

Your reasoning is becoming more and more ridiculous. 

The instances of someone abusing anti-discrimination laws in order to be perverted are almost unheard of. You are exaggerating the amount of danger the public would be in if we allowed trans people equality and dignity by a whole lot. Like, a whole lot. There is little to no evidence or statistics to show that trans people using the correct bathroom will lead to perversion. Look at the freaking UK, where people use whatever bathroom they feel comfortable in. And how much of a problem are perverse assholes? Oh yeah. It's not a problem there. 

Do you honestly think pulling a story off the internet of a scenario that rarely actually happens is going to help you? I might applaud you if you could find TEN different and separate accounts (most of which I'm sure will be from anti-trans far-right conservative news articles) of a man disguising himself as a woman so he could sneak into their bathroom. Why? Because it's a non-issue. Happens a couple times a year in a country that has about a billion public restrooms. 

But do you know what is an issue? Trans people being denied equality. And how many of them will suffer every year if more anti-trans bathroom laws are passed? All SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND that are estimated to be in the U.S. right now. What do you have to say for those people? "Sorry, tough luck. Just gotta suck it up." You are trying so hard to sound fair and compassionate towards trans people... but you're not. You really don't care about them at all. 

This remind me very much of the craze leading up to the legalizing of gay marriage. All these conservatives riding their paranoid-ass slippery slopes:
"If we allow this, what's stopping incestuous marriage??"
"If we allow this, straight marriages will go extinct!"
"If we allow this, children will be traumatized, and the family unit will break apart!"
"If we allow this, what's stopping two women and a man all marrying each other??"

But here we are, approaching a year later, and how much of that has come true? How many of those fears were justified? 

Oh, right, none of them. The world is turning the same as it was yesterday, but with greater justice and a step further for the gay community. 
Time to watch history repeat itself. 

Sorry, C_L, but transgenders WILL get equal bathroom rights. It might take a couple years... might take decades.... but human society is ever progressing, always moving forward. Change is inevitable, whether it occur today or tomorrow, and whether or not you like it.

I agree Evie, I don't think that it would.

Like women are given limitless perving privileges in their restrooms or something.


Or are they?

We are still talking about trampling on one group in order to prevent crimes by a completely unrelated group that have not shown to be correlated to the absence of these laws.

It wouldn't fly in any other scenario, but somehow, since we're just beginning to talk about transgender issues as a society, guess which group is dragging back progress?

It would be nice if once, just once, religion could be on the leading edge of social change.