(April 13, 2016 at 5:02 pm)abaris Wrote:

(April 13, 2016 at 4:57 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: Antisemitism was Catholic.

Not really, if you read Luther. And it may have started out as a religious prejudice but evolved into a economical, social and and political one in the 19th century. At least as far as the figureheads of antisemitism are concerned. Not only in Europe but also in the USA. Henri Ford among them.

Hitler took his from the persons I mentioned earlier in this thread. And that's largely agreed upon by the scientific community.

Okay fine, antisemitism is Christian. It may have become a political movement, but it was still undoubtedly the result of centuries of religiously inspired antisemitism.

(April 13, 2016 at 1:11 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(April 13, 2016 at 12:40 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: Quitter 


And there's that Christian "whatever you want to believe" line. It has nothing to do with what I want to believe. The man was a Catholic, and Catholics are Christians. You have no way of saying otherwise except to appeal to a fallacy and then claim the fallacy doesn't apply to you because "obviously."

 I'm not quitting I'm tired of you reorganizing the argument just to suit your self and have your fun with Christians. The Bible tells us who Christians are and who are not, go read Paul's writings.

GC

You mean the guy who used to be Saul? Like Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader then got forgiven for his crime and became Anakin again at the end of Return of the Jedi?

Yep Paul, just like the God Character, promises to be nice at first, beats the crap out of people, stops for a while, promises not to do it again, then at the end of the book goes right back to being violent. Why should we trust the word of a career criminal?

(April 13, 2016 at 5:23 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote:

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(April 13, 2016 at 5:02 pm)abaris Wrote: Not really, if you read Luther. And it may have started out as a religious prejudice but evolved into a economical, social and and political one in the 19th century. At least as far as the figureheads of antisemitism are concerned. Not only in Europe but also in the USA. Henri Ford among them.

Hitler took his from the persons I mentioned earlier in this thread. And that's largely agreed upon by the scientific community.

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Quote:Okay fine, antisemitism is Christian. It may have become a political movement, but it was still undoubtedly the result of centuries of religiously inspired antisemitism.

Antisemitism is biblical and was a plank in biblical Christianity.

Hitler was just Hitler.

Attempting to place him into a particular category does not change who he was, rather it makes the people who are labeling him into a particular category seem rather suspicious.

(April 13, 2016 at 5:04 pm)Evie Wrote: Hitler claimed to be Catholic, right?

I'm only giving my opinion based on what I think I know, Abaris.

Hitler was a Jew and part of the Zionist conspiracy to force the Jews out of Germany so that they would go steal Palestine for the Jewish state Herzl had planned.  The conspiracy worked to perfection.  

http://henrymakow.com/2013/05/Hitler-had...h-DNA.html

(April 15, 2016 at 1:26 am)Maelstrom Wrote: Hitler was just Hitler.

Attempting to place him into a particular category does not change who he was, rather it makes the people who are labeling him into a particular category seem rather suspicious.

No nobody is labeling him for reading his words both public and private. We are coming to conclusions based on those recorded events. He was not a standard Christian no, but there is no way he could be called an atheist. It still remains he had the idea that their was a "providence" a higher force guiding him.

And again, he would have murdered anyone who dissented against him, including atheists, and he at the same time employed anyone who supported him including the church and or atheists. He was an opportunist. 

Luther's anti Jewish rhetoric still shaped Hitler's views and that does have a biblical source regardless. 

It is the same dodge people use with calling Stalin an atheist, which still does not matter. Stalin simply replaced the authoritarian nature of the bible with worship of the state, but even he utilized the Russian Orthodox church to gain support for WW2 so even he didn't get rid of religion completely.

And the same with even modern Cuba. If the country were all atheist, then why did the Pope last month give a service in a Catholic church there? 

Because Germany nor Russia nor Cuba are atheist countries in reality. They are different forms of monopolies of power, and people stupidly get stuck on atheist vs theist, and the issue with those states is power, not religion itself. 

No modern westernized atheist I would call sane would or should value those types of monopolies of power by one person, one family or one party. Worship of an absolute state is the same worship of an authoritarian god. 

The god character of Abraham is a great character to learn from if one wants to set up an oppressive state of any kind, theocracy or worship of the state like Kim Jong Un. Appeal to authority and blind loyalty.

(April 15, 2016 at 9:23 am)Brian37 Wrote: Luther's anti Jewish rhetoric still shaped Hitler's views and that does have a biblical source regardless. 

Luther shaped Hitler least of all. I would say, not at all. Look up the names I've already mentioned in this very thread. Hitler was shaped by the belle epoque antisemitism of his time, which was largely political, social and economical. Luther didn't play a role because for one, Hitler never was a protestant and secondly because the environment of Vienna and Munich was deeply catholic.

But that aside, where he got his rabid antisemitism from is still up for dispute, since it's a known and proven fact that he socialised with jews when he lived at Vienna. He emerged from the first war being an antisemite. At least he claimed to be, since before joining the DAP, which he turned into the NSDAP, he was a "Reichswehr" informant for the regime of Kurt Eisner, who besides being a radical leftist, was a jew.

What he wrote in "Mein Kampf" isn't taken to be fact. It's a legend he surrounded himself with. The poverty as well as the early antisemitism. Hitler never was really poor, since he inherited a moderate sum of money and his extended family provided for him.

Hitler was a Catholic and contrary to a lot of silly Christians redefining what it means to be Christian, Catholics were Christians.

So yes, Hitler was Christian.

(April 15, 2016 at 9:43 am)abaris Wrote:

(April 15, 2016 at 9:23 am)Brian37 Wrote: Luther's anti Jewish rhetoric still shaped Hitler's views and that does have a biblical source regardless. 

Luther shaped Hitler least of all. I would say, not at all. Look up the names I've already mentioned in this very thread. Hitler was shaped by the belle epoque antisemitism of his time, which was largely political, social and economical. Luther didn't play a role because for one, Hitler never was a protestant and secondly because the environment of Vienna and Munich was deeply catholic.

But that aside, where he got his rabid antisemitism from is still up for dispute, since it's a known and proven fact that he socialised with jews when he lived at Vienna. He emerged from the first war being an antisemite. At least he claimed to be, since before joining the DAP, which he turned into the NSDAP, he was a "Reichswehr" informant for the regime of Kurt Eisner, who besides being a radical leftist, was a jew.

What he wrote in "Mein Kampf" isn't taken to be fact. It's a legend he surrounded himself with. The poverty as well as the early antisemitism. Hitler never was really poor, since he inherited a moderate sum of money and his extended family provided for him.

Ok ok, 

Well this is also why getting stuck on labels you can argue over forever. But the truth is all you have to do to get humans to do very horrible things to others is to dangle a utopia in front of them, be it religious, political or business or a combo of those. I often see people with "Che" as their avatar too, and that guy pretty much played off the plight of the poor, but he was no hero of the poor.

Iran does it, Saudi Arabia does it, North Korea does it, Hitler did it, Stalin did it and while America is still pluralistic if you listen to our right wing, they love religious nationalism. 

There is no perfect ideology of any kind of any aspect of society, there are only humans competing for resources. I'd only say that the west by comparison is far more in tune with the empathy of our species, but even then, we also have our pockets of nuts who seek to create a social pecking order as well. Life is ultimately diverse and messy so the push for a perfect ideology or utopia is stupid and dangerous.

So has this been settled then? Hitler was a Christian.