(April 17, 2016 at 5:59 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:

(April 17, 2016 at 3:18 pm)Expired Wrote: Respect is earned Tiger, I can not and will not respect anybody who gives credence to such an organization. And btw stick your community up your arses.

Thank you for making my point. C_L has  earned our respect through the kindness of her heart, her willingness to get to know us as people instead of just "the opposition", and her willingness to reconsider her position (sometimes-- she doesn't always agree, of course). 

You, on the other hand, have come in here as a Nobody and attacked someone who has already earned our respect. When it was pointed out to you that you're new and you're attacking a person who has earned respect from everyone else here, you chose to double down and attack all of us.

As my Drill Instructor once pointed out, "Son, if everyone else seems to be marching out of step, it's probably you."

Ok, we all know you have a thing for CL, I say what I see, that's all you will ever get from me. keep being liberal towards these nuts and lets carry on the bigotry far far into the future.

(April 17, 2016 at 4:58 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

(April 17, 2016 at 4:04 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Do you have any proof of that?  That transgender people are more likely to be attacked in restrooms.

?

I've only just got in from a holiday. I was about to reply on my tablet on the bus but duolingo was updating and used up all my allowed bandwidth. So keep your hair on.

Demanding proof makes you sound like a theist though. Will you be expecting premises and conclusions next?

I can offer you evidence though. Ask any male to female transsexual who has transitioned. To be honest I'm surprised that I even have to explain this to you. Just to remind you, you said:

(April 15, 2016 at 7:37 pm)paulpablo Wrote: I would think women are more likely to be attacked than transgender people.

Let's for the moment agree that the transgendered people we are talking about as being more at risk are those that don't pass. Because if they do pass and are attacked then they are being attacked as a man or as a woman, and not because they are transgendered because the attacker doesn't realise it. And let's be clear about the kind of people who do the attacking. These will be bullies. Bullies look for victims that they perceive as weak. Part of this perception comes from the victim themselves feeling vulnerable and bullies recognising this, which is most certainly more likely to be the case if the trans person is lacking confidence and are aware of people staring at them.

When you don't pass you can often be seen as less of a man or a woman, as less human by a lot of people. You can see examples of this in the media where for many decades trans people have been dehumanised to be the butt of jokes or a news story just for titillation.

Some people get creeped out by others that are different, look at CL and BrokenQuille's reactions for example on this very thread. This is a reaction that cisgendered women or trans-women who do pass are less likely to evoke in others. Look at Drich gloating in this thread regarding the idea of a trans man being raped to 'educate them that they are women'. This emotional reaction makes the trans person more vulnerable. If a bully sees you as a man in a dress, they are more likely to try groping your crotch while their mates laugh for example, something they would never do to someone they perceive to be a woman. Or for that matter the police treating a trans-woman as some kind of freak, dehumanising her in the process. Not to mention the very high rate of murders of trans-women in the US by men, particularly against trans-women of colour.

So if you want to gather evidence yourself, ask some male to female transsexuals when they were most likely to be attacked or physically or sexually abused. When they were transitioning and didn't always pass, or when people perceived them to be women. And it is this most vulnerable stage that will be made even more dangerous with these bathroom bills.

But don't just take my word for it

http://www.avp.org/storage/documents/nca...tsheet.pdf

(April 17, 2016 at 6:05 pm)Mathilda Wrote:

(April 17, 2016 at 4:58 pm)paulpablo Wrote: ?

I've only just got in from a holiday. I was about to reply on my tablet on the bus but duolingo was updating and used up all my allowed bandwidth. So keep your hair on.

Demanding proof makes you sound like a theist though. Will you be expecting premises and conclusions next?

I can offer you evidence though. Ask any male to female transsexual who has transitioned. To be honest I'm surprised that I even have to explain this to you. Just to remind you, you said:

(April 15, 2016 at 7:37 pm)paulpablo Wrote: I would think women are more likely to be attacked than transgender people.

Let's for the moment agree that the transgendered people we are talking about as being more at risk are those that don't pass. Because if they do pass and are attacked then they are being attacked as a man or as a woman, and not because they are transgendered because the attacker doesn't realise it. And let's be clear about the kind of people who do the attacking. These will be bullies. Bullies look for victims that they perceive as weak. Part of this perception comes from the victim themselves feeling vulnerable and bullies recognising this, which is most certainly more likely to be the case if the trans person is lacking confidence and are aware of people staring at them.

When you don't pass you can often be seen as less of a man or a woman, as less human by a lot of people. You can see examples of this in the media where for many decades trans people have been dehumanised to be the butt of jokes or a news story just for titillation.

Some people get creeped out by others that are different, look at CL and BrokenQuille's reactions for example on this very thread. This is a reaction that cisgendered women or trans-women who do pass are less likely to evoke in others. Look at Drich gloating in this thread regarding the idea of a trans man being raped to 'educate them that they are women'. This emotional reaction makes the trans person more vulnerable. If a bully sees you as a man in a dress, they are more likely to try groping your crotch while their mates laugh for example, something they would never do to someone they perceive to be a woman. Or for that matter the police treating a trans-woman as some kind of freak, dehumanising her in the process. Not to mention the very high rate of murders of trans-women in the US by men, particularly against trans-women of colour.

So if you want to gather evidence yourself, ask some male to female transsexuals when they were most likely to be attacked or physically or sexually abused. When they were transitioning and didn't always pass, or when people perceived them to be women. And it is this most vulnerable stage that will be made even more dangerous with these bathroom bills.

But don't just take my word for it

http://www.avp.org/storage/documents/nca...tsheet.pdf

I think this also says a lot about the lack of a threat from transwomen. I would bet that the average transgender woman has been harassed and bullied her entire life, if not for being trans then for being percieved as a gay or feminine boy during childhood. Even gay cisgender men are sometimes sexually harassed by straight men as a sick joke, it happened to me once, I was groped by an apparently straight bully just "for banter". That's nothing compared to what a transgender woman is going to experience, when there is all this fetishizing, obsessive curiosity over genitalia, and dehumanization which leads to no respect for personal space.

So transgender women, who know what harassment and sexual assault feels like all too well, are not going to put that on biological women.  Most sexual violence against women is going to come from straight, cisgendered men.

(April 17, 2016 at 6:05 pm)Mathilda Wrote:

(April 17, 2016 at 4:58 pm)paulpablo Wrote: ?

I've only just got in from a holiday. I was about to reply on my tablet on the bus but duolingo was updating and used up all my allowed bandwidth. So keep your hair on.

Demanding proof makes you sound like a theist though. Will you be expecting premises and conclusions next?

I can offer you evidence though. Ask any male to female transsexual who has transitioned. To be honest I'm surprised that I even have to explain this to you. Just to remind you, you said:

(April 15, 2016 at 7:37 pm)paulpablo Wrote: I would think women are more likely to be attacked than transgender people.

Let's for the moment agree that the transgendered people we are talking about as being more at risk are those that don't pass. Because if they do pass and are attacked then they are being attacked as a man or as a woman, and not because they are transgendered because the attacker doesn't realise it. And let's be clear about the kind of people who do the attacking. These will be bullies. Bullies look for victims that they perceive as weak. Part of this perception comes from the victim themselves feeling vulnerable and bullies recognising this, which is most certainly more likely to be the case if they are lacking confidence and are aware of people staring at them.

When you don't pass you can often be seen as less of a man or a woman, as less human by a lot of people. You can see examples of this in the media where for many decades trans people have been dehumanised to be the butt of jokes or a news story just for titillation.

Some people get creeped out by others that are different, look at CL and BrokenQuille's reactions for example on this very thread. This is a reaction that cisgendered women or trans-women who do pass are less likely to evoke in others. Look at Drich gloating in this thread regarding the idea of a trans man being raped to 'educate them that they are women'. This emotional reaction makes the trans person more vulnerable. If a bully sees you as a man in a dress, they are more likely to try groping your crotch while their mates laugh for example, something they would never do to someone they perceive to be a woman. Or for that matter the police treating a trans-woman as some kind of freak, dehumanising her in the process. Not to mention the very high rate of murders of trans-women in the US by men, particularly against trans-women of colour.

So if you want to gather evidence yourself, ask some male to female transsexuals when they were most likely to be attacked or physically or sexually abused. When they were transitioning and didn't always pass, or when people perceived them to be women. And it is this most vulnerable stage that will be made even more dangerous with these bathroom bills.

But don't just take my word for it

http://www.avp.org/storage/documents/nca...tsheet.pdf

Demanding proof makes me sound like a theist?  Is that a common problem with theists? Or even a problem when anyone does it?  I don't know any transexuals so I wouldn't be able to ask any personally but I'll take yours and googles word for it that they are attacked more commonly.  As I said I misspoke when I just said attacks, I was thinking of sexual voyeurism and rape and things like that rather than attacks.

So that being said, are you for or against gender neutral restrooms?  Do you think transsexuals as vulnerable people will in danger of having their crotch groped by men while their mates laugh or whatever if people of all genders are sharing the same toilet area.

(April 17, 2016 at 6:21 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Demanding proof makes me sound like a theist?  Is that a common problem with theists?  I don't know any transexuals so I wouldn't be able to ask any personally but I'll take yours and googles word for it that they are attacked more commonly.  As I said I misspoke when I just said attacks, I was thinking of sexual voyeurism and rape and things like that rather than attacks.

Alternatively you could just move your own ass and look up the required information. As I said, it's not that hard. But that's not your goal, isn't it? You want the statement to be wrong, which it isn't. But you want others to make their case instead of getting your own information. Motto, contradict first and let others do the legwork.

(April 17, 2016 at 6:24 pm)abaris Wrote:

(April 17, 2016 at 6:21 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Demanding proof makes me sound like a theist?  Is that a common problem with theists?  I don't know any transexuals so I wouldn't be able to ask any personally but I'll take yours and googles word for it that they are attacked more commonly.  As I said I misspoke when I just said attacks, I was thinking of sexual voyeurism and rape and things like that rather than attacks.

Alternatively you could just move your own ass and look up the required information. As I said, it's not that hard. But that's not your goal, isn't it? You want the statement to be wrong, which it isn't. But you want others to make their case instead of getting your own information. Motto, contradict first and let others do the legwork.

What's my goal?

(April 17, 2016 at 6:42 pm)paulpablo Wrote: What's my goal?

As usual. Attacking minorities by giving the appearance of intellectual distance.

(April 17, 2016 at 6:43 pm)abaris Wrote:

(April 17, 2016 at 6:42 pm)paulpablo Wrote: What's my goal?

As usual. Attacking minorities by giving the appearance of intellectual distance.

Yeh but I can't help doing that.  I'm white straight, blue eyed CIS, averaged height privileged person.  Everyone knows it's in our DNA to wake up and attack minorities by giving the appearance of intellectual distance.

So, I take it, you don't want to look up anti LGBT attacks. We don't need to, you obviously do. Afraid of what you might find?

(April 17, 2016 at 6:52 pm)abaris Wrote: So, I take it, you don't want to look up anti LGBT attacks. We don't need to, you obviously do. Afraid of what you might find?

I said a few posts ago that I googled it and it came up with transexuals are often subject to verbal and sometimes physical attacks and I trust googles and matildas word for it......

So no I'm not afraid of anything, all of a sudden questioning something and asking for evidence is a controversial heated matter in an atheist forum topic.

I also said that I shouldn't have used the word attack since I was mainly thinking about rapes and peeping toms.