(April 18, 2016 at 12:58 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

Quote:Um, you're already "allowed" to go into toilets anyway, because the door isn't locked and no one guards them. It's as easy as that. The idea that making it okay for transgenders makes it "easier" for someone to do that kind of thing is patently ridiculous. 

This is what you said.  I'm saying which door isn't locked or guarded?  

I repeat again that I have no agenda here but you people who say no toilets are guarded must walk around with your eyes closed or have some agenda yourself or just not understand how security works.

Try being a tall bearded man and walking into female toilets in a train station or airport or nightclub when you're around the nightclub bouncers or security and then you will find out if toilets are sometimes guarded or not.

What does "a tall bearded man" have to do with trans people trying to use the restroom?

I mean, dude, seriously!

(April 18, 2016 at 1:03 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:

(April 18, 2016 at 12:58 pm)paulpablo Wrote: This is what you said.  I'm saying which door isn't locked or guarded?  

I repeat again that I have no agenda here but you people who say no toilets are guarded must walk around with your eyes closed or have some agenda yourself or just not understand how security works.

Try being a tall bearded man and walking into female toilets in a train station or airport or nightclub when you're around the nightclub bouncers or security and then you will find out if toilets are sometimes guarded or not.

What does "a tall bearded man" have to do with trans people trying to use the restroom?

I mean, dude, seriously!

Nothing at all.  We aren't talking about that.  We're talking about you saying that toilet areas are never guarded or locked and me arguing that they are often guarded or locked.

Oh, and by the way... look at my avatar picture. That's really me. I'm a slender, 5'9" (that's 175.26 cm for you non-Americans), somewhat "pretty" guy without a deep voice, and who takes a week to grow visible facial hair, at the age of 40. Even without hormones and surgery, if I was a transgender and dressed accordingly, I could easily walk into a woman's restroom and get in/out of there without anyone even noticing, let alone become uncomfortable.

I don't understand why cis people insist on taking the most radical version of "man in women's restroom" and turning it into a strawman to use against trans people, when it has nothing to do with the real question at hand.

(April 18, 2016 at 1:05 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Nothing at all.  We aren't talking about that.  We're talking about you saying that toilet areas are never guarded or locked and me arguing that they are often guarded or locked.

Locked? Where? The most I had to do so far was inserting a 50 cent piece in a slot to use it. So far I never once encountered any locked restroom in Europe. In many countries it's even against the law to make restrooms inaccessible.

(April 18, 2016 at 1:08 pm)abaris Wrote:

(April 18, 2016 at 1:05 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Nothing at all.  We aren't talking about that.  We're talking about you saying that toilet areas are never guarded or locked and me arguing that they are often guarded or locked.

Locked? Where? The most I had to do so far was inserting a 50 cent piece in a slot to use it. So far I never once encountered any locked restroom in Europe. In many countries it's even against the law to make restrooms inaccessible.

Ok the places I've encountered public toilets that were locked.  Subway the sandwich place I mean.  There are two major gym chains in the UK and both have toilets that require a numerical code to enter.  Also in libraries.  And in small train stations aswell.

(April 18, 2016 at 1:05 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

(April 18, 2016 at 1:03 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: What does "a tall bearded man" have to do with trans people trying to use the restroom?

I mean, dude, seriously!

Nothing at all.  We aren't talking about that.  We're talking about you saying that toilet areas are never guarded or locked and me arguing that they are often guarded or locked.

In high-crime areas, they might well be. But you don't get to use the term "often" to describe a situation that doesn't apply to 99% of the bathrooms across this planet. This is called the "faulty generalization" fallacy.

Hell, when driving to Kansas City a few weeks ago, I accidentally walked into the ladies' room at a rest stop (they were right next to one another, and the sign placement was confusing enough that my exhausted-from-driving brain didn't notice), walked around for a few seconds before noticing the lack of urinals = ladies' room, and walked calmly back out to turn the corner into the adjacent men's room.

(April 18, 2016 at 1:07 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Oh, and by the way... look at my avatar picture. That's really me. I'm a slender, 5'9" (that's 175.26 cm for you non-Americans), somewhat "pretty" guy without a deep voice, and who takes a week to grow visible facial hair, at the age of 40. Even without hormones and surgery, if I was a transgender and dressed accordingly, I could easily walk into a woman's restroom and get in/out of there without anyone even noticing, let alone become uncomfortable.

I don't understand why cis people insist on taking the most radical version of "man in women's restroom" and turning it into a strawman to use against trans people, when it has nothing to do with the real question at hand.

Actually I was keeping the topic the same while you were trying to derail it and stawman me into making arguments about transexuals entering restrooms.

My argument is that sometimes toilets are guarded or locked.

(April 18, 2016 at 1:12 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:

(April 18, 2016 at 1:05 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Nothing at all.  We aren't talking about that.  We're talking about you saying that toilet areas are never guarded or locked and me arguing that they are often guarded or locked.

In high-crime areas, they might well be. But you don't get to use the term "often" to describe a situation that doesn't apply to 99% of the bathrooms across this planet. This is called the "faulty generalization" fallacy.

Hell, when driving to Kansas City a few weeks ago, I accidentally walked into the ladies' room at a rest stop (they were right next to one another, and the sign placement was confusing enough that my exhausted-from-driving brain didn't notice), walked around for a few seconds before noticing the lack of urinals = ladies' room, and walked calmly back out to turn the corner into the adjacent men's room.

Often is relative. I could say I often go to the gym often even if I'm only going to the gym 0.5% of the day twice a week. You criticizing me for using general terms when you originally said toilet doors aren't locked or guarded when they sometimes are is pretty hypocritical.

(April 18, 2016 at 1:14 pm)paulpablo Wrote: My argument is that sometimes toilets are guarded or locked.

So make a case of them being guarded outside the usual train hub security. The restroom itself. I predict, you will have a hard time doing so, since there's not a single instance where shitter guardian fits any kind of job description.

It did in the past, in the 70ies and 80ies, when there still was a person sitting in the antechamber to collect money.

(April 18, 2016 at 1:18 pm)abaris Wrote:

(April 18, 2016 at 1:14 pm)paulpablo Wrote: My argument is that sometimes toilets are guarded or locked.

So make a case of them being guarded outside the usual train hub security. The restroom itself. I predict, you will have a hard time doing so, since there's not a single instance where shitter guardian fits any kind of job description.

It did in the past, in the 70ies and 80ies, when there still was a person sitting in the antechamber to collect money.

I can easily do this because I know so many security guards but why would I?  If my case is that toilets are sometimes guarded and they are in train stations why should I have to go further than that?  Will I next have to prove that they guard the toilets in a specific country of your choice or in a certain park you know of?