(April 6, 2011 at 3:31 pm)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: Thank you. And I think those are not the beginning of the end (that would have been earlier if indeed this was the end). In my opinion... those are pretty lackluster end times.

theVoid Wrote:So you think you learned something about reality while your brain was shutting down and now your a theist?

(April 7, 2011 at 5:57 am)Holubice Wrote:

(April 6, 2011 at 3:31 pm)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: Thank you. And I think those are not the beginning of the end (that would have been earlier if indeed this was the end). In my opinion... those are pretty lackluster end times.

The best (or the worst) is coming. Soon. Take a look at TV on news coming from here:

Guardian: Prelude to revolution
Al Jazeera: Fresh clashes in Bahrain protests

(April 6, 2011 at 5:07 pm)Emporion Wrote: *woke up from my N.D.E*
Me: Hey doc, you woke me up from my dream!
Doctor: You would have died if I didn't stop the machine.
Me: You're right, doc. Thank you for the wonderful N.D.E while it lasted.
Doctor: You're welcome.

How does this prove God?

(April 6, 2011 at 5:18 pm)SpatiumTempusque Wrote: Sei Italiano! Ti raccomando... stai attento qui perche ci sono queli che ti fanno male (ai tuoi sentimenti)!

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(April 7, 2011 at 6:05 am)Holubice Wrote:

(April 6, 2011 at 5:07 pm)Emporion Wrote: *woke up from my N.D.E*
Me: Hey doc, you woke me up from my dream!
Doctor: You would have died if I didn't stop the machine.
Me: You're right, doc. Thank you for the wonderful N.D.E while it lasted.
Doctor: You're welcome.

How does this prove God?

Nothing will prove God to the heart of a man who wish God doesn't exist because he has nothing to gain from His existence. Could you be comfortable for you to realize Somebody has noted anything you have done in your life (I mean anything)? Could be comfortable for you to realized that you had to give all your money to poor? (I mean all). This is the reason why you are so sarcastic: you hope He doesn't exist.

(April 7, 2011 at 6:05 am)Holubice Wrote:

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(April 6, 2011 at 5:07 pm)Emporion Wrote: *woke up from my N.D.E*
Me: Hey doc, you woke me up from my dream!
Doctor: You would have died if I didn't stop the machine.
Me: You're right, doc. Thank you for the wonderful N.D.E while it lasted.
Doctor: You're welcome.

How does this prove God?

Nothing will prove God to the heart of a man who wish God doesn't exist because he has nothing to gain from His existence. Could you be comfortable for you to realize Somebody has noted anything you have done in your life (I mean anything)? Could be comfortable for you to realized that you had to give all your money to poor? (I mean all). This is the reason why you are so sarcastic: you hope He doesn't exist.

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(April 6, 2011 at 5:18 pm)SpatiumTempusque Wrote: Sei Italiano! Ti raccomando... stai attento qui perche ci sono queli che ti fanno male (ai tuoi sentimenti)!

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For those ones (many) which don't speak my language: you wrote "There are here some persons which could hurt your sentiment".
Don't worry. I type also with your colleagues Italian Atheist. They created an 'Instruction map for Missionaries". It's funny. I have translated with Google Translator the content and I paste it here in a hidden text (have fun!):

[hide]"Dear missionary


Welcome to the heart of free spirits in the house! You happened between us and wanted to bring glad tidings of the faith. To thank you in advance for your spirit of sacrifice, we have summarized some advice in order to relieve the monotony of just a proclamation of faith in the operational area AI.

If you're reading this, presumably you arrived here via another thread, in case you have not yet started your missionary work and have clicked on this thread of your own free will, of course, all the better.

You can well imagine that it is not the first missionary who accepts the challenge of bringing the light of faith to the inhabitants of the godless home of free spirits, and if you do not want to repeat the mistakes of your predecessors, you should take into account the recommendations outlined here. If you fail at first, not the end of the world, if necessary, remind you of this text.

1. Familiar with the arguments that criticize religions! A rough overview you can find it eg. Dittmar Online here, or Ebon Musings by Dawkins' book "The God Delusion." If necessary, ask for information on non-believers on the other websites and books.

2. Forget what you read on websites apologetic! The issues and guides set out herein to convert atheists are not worth anything. But above all, do not include links to similar websites by adding "Well, now refuted this" will be interpreted as laziness argument. And if you spam the forum with copincolla of entire web pages, prepared to receive responses unfriendly.

3. Do not threaten us with hell! Even if you mean just as a warning, I felt as a threat. And since we do not believe in hell, we'll just laugh at it wearily. It also reinforces our impression that your religion has nothing to offer but fear.

4. The arguments are over contemplative sentences! This is a forum for discussions, not sermons. Assertions are not arguments, such an argument is always a reason. The contents of the faith are not reasons, effective reasoning is irrefutable objective data on which is in agreement with your partner also. So look for common ground with your partners before you build upon the discussion. Do not build your arguments on the premise that God exists, because they want to prove the existence slip into a closed circle.

5. Familiar with the errors argumentative Avoid them! Among others, occur repeatedly, the following errors:

• Argumentum ad verecundiam (appeal to authority): Do not appeal to authority! Just because some scientist shares your faith, does not mean that this is true.
• Argumentum ad personam (personal attack): Do not personally attack the other person! Concentrated rather to weaken his arguments.
• Argumentum ad ignorantiam (appeal to ignorance): Just because a certain phenomenon was not found a natural explanation, it does not follow that God is behind us in doing so also degrade your God to the level of stop-gap, which must be withdrawn increasingly to the extent that science progresses.
• The true Scottish (Antony Flew, the statement of principle): Be careful not to make a difference between true and false believers! Just because someone hurts, does not mean she can not share your faith. We will acknowledge your faith to see all rosy.
• The straw man: the first to refute an argument, you must ensure that your partner actually support him. You do not need anything to refute an argument that still does not agree with anyone.
• Argumentum ad populum (appeal to the mass): The amount of the faithful does not reinforce the authenticity of faith.
• Lowering the burden of proof: who makes a statement, the show has. The burden of proof is borne by the believer, not the skeptic, not expected to refute your statements, if you do the same effort to substantiate.
• Quotes spun off from their context: when you cite someone, pay attention to the context in which the quotation is made. It is likely that the meaning is different from what you mean.
• Non sequitur (wrong conclusions): be careful that your conclusions are the logical consequence of your premises.
You can find more information HERE Wikipedia.

6. Look at the mistakes made by other missionaries Avoid them! You are not the first one who wants to convert. Examine why your predecessors have failed, eg. HERE

7. Avoid stereotypes and prejudices! Among others, these:

• atheists have no morals, sense of life, hope ...
• atheists are nihilists
• atheists have no conscience
• fellow atheists are Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot
• atheists have been disappointed by God through a traumatic experience
• Even atheism is a faith, no religion is without


8. Let's wager Pascal out of the game! Pascal's wager is a false conundrum and also a subtle threat of hell. We have already discussed quite often, use the search function!

9. Beware the Münchhausen-trilemma! Do not groped to convince non-believers with dogma and circular reasoning set arbitrarily.

10. There is atheism! There is no atheist bible, church, atheist, and no atheist Pope, who speaks for all non-believers, among whom there are totally different opinions on various topics. Watch therefore generalizations and the fact that atheists do not believe in a god does not make them a unified group. Consider that the same followers of a religion are not always all of the same opinion, even within the current belief systems are different and groupings, to say nothing of individual sects or divisions. Not having a common basis as the Bible or the Koran various atheists have, inevitably, different ideas.

11. We tell stories of conversions! Such reports move the discussion from the objective plane to the emotional, with the result that your partner receive the impression of being cheated. A proper discussion can take place only on the objective level, especially not us telling stories of conversion on his deathbed, the vast majority of which are plus false. If any of these stories contains arguments in favor of your faith, you can also tell us these arguments alone, also remembers that we have many more stories of people who have lost faith, and that even know these people. Many of them write here.

12. Do not ignore any argument, no matter what happens! Let it be clear that in this case will be attached to your point of view in that regard, however, this should not lead you to ignore arguments or questions, their relevance continue to apply irrespective quietly.
In addition you should also take into account questions that you seem grotesque, such as why do not you think at:
Pink Unicorn
or to:
Pastafarianesimo
These questions are meant seriously!

13. Expose your arguments in a clear and articulate! Otherwise it can happen to you attribute the contents of faith that you represent. It is not bad intentions, it may be the contents of faith shared by most of those who claim to have your own faith. It may also be that it is simply a logical consequence of what truly believe and have already told you. (It is conceivable even a mixture of both things)

14. Use the search function! It is possible that your arguments have already been discussed here to the vomiting. If you can not introduce new ideas in old threads, you better forget it.

15. Take your time! Read a little in the first forum. Think exactly what you're about to enter, can only be beneficial to the quality of your work. "

A couple of examples with discussions containing some of the arguments listed above:

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(April 6, 2011 at 11:12 pm)ib.me.ub Wrote:

(April 6, 2011 at 7:50 am)Holubice Wrote: [What you really need is humility. A quality disappeared nowadays. Those condition are the preconditions.

Indeed. Do you think announcing that you are a prophet on an open forum is a sign of humility?

(April 6, 2011 at 11:12 pm)ib.me.ub Wrote:

(April 6, 2011 at 7:50 am)Holubice Wrote: And this event will sparkle a war in Persian Gulf which will stop the oil supplies in all around the world:

A war between who?

(April 7, 2011 at 5:50 am)Holubice Wrote: You are right. Even if the right word could be 'to detonate'...
I apologized in advance for my poor control of English language. And I pray you to write me the same basic English I read in my washing machine instruction... thanks.

(April 7, 2011 at 4:48 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Wars around the world because oil is being withheld? "Natural catastrophic disasters" caused by some deity or other marks "the end times"??
If I had a $1 for every time in the last 50+ years I have heard these phrases I would be a very rich woman by now.
Please understand little one that EVERYONE here has read your silly little books and the silly little books from EVERY religion on the planet (5000BCE to current). You had an NDE??? Are you sure it was not drug induced??? It really IS amazing what the mind /brain will come up with in the form of pictures as a survival tactic.

(April 7, 2011 at 6:29 am)Holubice Wrote:

(April 6, 2011 at 11:12 pm)ib.me.ub Wrote:

(April 6, 2011 at 7:50 am)Holubice Wrote: [What you really need is humility. A quality disappeared nowadays. Those condition are the preconditions.

Indeed. Do you think announcing that you are a prophet on an open forum is a sign of humility?

No, it's a way to alert as many person as it is possible while all the events start to come true. And to ask you to act the same way I do.
Yes. Right you.

(April 6, 2011 at 11:12 pm)ib.me.ub Wrote:

(April 6, 2011 at 7:50 am)Holubice Wrote: And this event will sparkle a war in Persian Gulf which will stop the oil supplies in all around the world:

A war between who?

Between the majority following Muslim religion version of IRAN and the minority following Muslim religion version of SAUDI ARABIA in the thin island of Bahrein. They (Iran and Saudi Arabia) have bought for decades weapons for this war. And the war will start. And that will be just the beginning.