(July 2, 2016 at 3:34 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote:

(July 2, 2016 at 3:31 am)Losty Wrote: People are very judgemental about the label and quick to throw you in with the extremists and the SJWs and I'm neither.

Yep. Anyone who supports women's rights is technically a feminist.

If these fuckers would know how to use a dictionary and stop defining the word "feminism" by judging groups of feminist extremists and SJWs and saying "That's feminism" this wouldn't be a problem.

Well, dictionaries trail usage. They don't define words, they give the definitions which people use already. Not saying Losty's self-definition is invalid -- it surely is, by her own lights -- but I can understand not wanting to be lumped in with that group, no matter what the OED has to say about it.

Yes this is part of the problem though too: Bastardized versions of words can become the offical usage through misuse.

Sure, it's normal and it's how language evolves... but it is annoying if one day the official meaning of a positive word meant to be about supporting women's rights ("feminism")'s official meaning becomes "Men haters who only want rights for women."

That would be awfully like how the official symbol of Jainism, the only true religion of peace, was stolen by Hitler to become the Swastika.... kind of ruins the original message. Which sucks.

We'd effectively need a new word for feminism. Or, just be a feminist but not call ourselves one because the word's been poisoned by misuse.

'Tis the way of the world, that noble ideals are suborned to base response. Look at how "atheist" is used as a pejorative, dictionary be damned.

The message, to me, is to not appeal to a dictionary for definition, but to promulgate your own, and hope to win out in the marketplace of ideas.

The trouble with labels (my trouble with them, at least) is that they are inherently unfair characterizations of people, whether the label in question is accurate or not. 'Boru is an atheist' is true as far as it goes, but implicit in the label is that notion that I am first and foremost an atheist, which is untrue and unfair.  My atheist doesn't inform everything I do or am.  When I'm building an instrument or cooking a meal or dancing with my wife, I'm not thinking about atheism - I'm thinking about woodworking, ingredients, and trying not to step on my wife's toes.



I dislike labels, certainly, but I hardly think it rises to the level of a phobia - I'm not afraid of being labeled. 'Boru the atheist',  'Riah the Jew',  'Betty the Nigerian' and so on may all be true, but they do a dis-service to people because no one is all one thing or another.  People are always more complex than labels would have us believe.

Boru

(July 1, 2016 at 3:51 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: For example, have you ever been ashamed about being an atheist and so modified your behaviour in a certain way just to avoid the subject?

No, I never did - if asked or if the conversation went a certain way. I'm me and if you can't deal with that, I'm probably better of without you (not you personally, of course, but in a general way).

Some 18 years ago, I had some conversation and it turned to jew bashing. I proudly mentioned my own jewish heritage, not because I'm actually proud of the coincidence of birth or both of my grandfathers having been jewish, but because to point out the bullshit argument this is. Blaming someone just for the coincidence of birth. It told me something about the people I was talking to, and that I didn't have that much in common with them as I thought.

There are matters I can't keep quiet about when they come up. I would hate myself if I idly sat by to watch hate- and fear mongering happen.

(July 1, 2016 at 7:42 pm)robvalue Wrote: Seriously, I don't get it. If I find out someone is bisexual, I assume nothing more than what that means by definition. I guess some people can't function without ridiculous stereotypes and projection.

Speaking about ridiculous stereotyping, When I told my muslim friends I was an atheist they were all cool about it then there's this other friend telling me how the devil is playing with my mind. It's unbelieveable how delusional some people can be.

(July 2, 2016 at 3:34 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Yep. Anyone who supports women's rights is technically a feminist.

I only support their lefts. No wait, I also support their bottoms. Oh, and tops also. Add fronts and backs to the mix.

Said Mark. Known in most of my IRL circles as "that guy with the god problem".

My balls agree with you.

(July 2, 2016 at 6:05 am)abaris Wrote:

(July 1, 2016 at 3:51 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: For example, have you ever been ashamed about being an atheist and so modified your behaviour in a certain way just to avoid the subject?

No, I never did - if asked or if the conversation went a certain way. I'm me and if you can't deal with that, I'm probably better of without you (not you personally, of course, but in a general way).

Some 18 years ago, I had some conversation and it turned to jew bashing. I proudly mentioned my own jewish heritage, not because I'm actually proud of the coincidence of birth or both of my grandfathers having been jewish, but because to point out the bullshit argument this is. Blaming someone just for the coincidence of birth. It told me something about the people I was talking to, and that I didn't have that much in common with them as I thought.

There are matters I can't keep quiet about when they come up. I would hate myself if I idly sat by to watch hate- and fear mongering happen.

Lol, what the fuck, they were actually talking trash about jews in this day and age? Random people you thought ok until that moment? That's a little insane, actually.

(July 2, 2016 at 5:56 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: The trouble with labels (my trouble with them, at least) is that they are inherently unfair characterizations of people, whether the label in question is accurate or not. 'Boru is an atheist' is true as far as it goes, but implicit in the label is that notion that I am first and foremost an atheist, which is untrue and unfair.  My atheist doesn't inform everything I do or am.  When I'm building an instrument or cooking a meal or dancing with my wife, I'm not thinking about atheism - I'm thinking about woodworking, ingredients, and trying not to step on my wife's toes.



I dislike labels, certainly, but I hardly think it rises to the level of a phobia - I'm not afraid of being labeled. 'Boru the atheist',  'Riah the Jew',  'Betty the Nigerian' and so on may all be true, but they do a dis-service to people because no one is all one thing or another.  People are always more complex than labels would have us believe.

Boru

What's wrong with that argument, of course, is that it presupposes everyone is so retarded as to define people based on one little detail about them. But hey, ok. If you care that much about what someone who thinks so narrowly thinks about you then I can certainly understand you. There's nothing you can do about emotions. Evie told me this just recently.

Sorry for the strong language, for some reason I feel like cursing right now. It's got nothing to do with what we're talking about or with you guys, I can assure you.