(July 16, 2016 at 2:21 am)Maelstrom Wrote: No.

What happens is the aftermath.

Free will is the the choice.

It is what happens before the aftermath.

How you cannot understand this is baffling.

Can you please define free will for me. Like, define it for me like I'm a person who encounters the idea for the very first time.

(July 16, 2016 at 2:27 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: Can you please define free will for me. Like, define it for me like I'm a person who encounters the idea for the very first time.

Quote:the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.

(July 16, 2016 at 2:29 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(July 16, 2016 at 2:27 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: Can you please define free will for me. Like, define it for me like I'm a person who encounters the idea for the very first time.

Quote:the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.

Ok, let's work with the first part of that definition, we'll get to the second part later, if need be. What do you understand by necessity or fate and how do you escape it in order to act outside of it?

I can act without the constraint of fate. How hard is that to understand?

(July 16, 2016 at 2:37 am)Maelstrom Wrote: I can act without the constraint of fate.  How hard is that to understand?

What do you understand by fate?

(July 16, 2016 at 2:49 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: What do you understand by fate?

Fate means there is no choice involved. I believe in choice.

(July 16, 2016 at 2:50 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(July 16, 2016 at 2:49 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: What do you understand by fate?

Fate means there is no choice involved.  I believe in choice.

Ok, and what do you understand by choice?

(July 16, 2016 at 2:51 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: Ok, and what do you understand by choice?

Choice is the free will to choose between once one option or another.

(July 16, 2016 at 2:52 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(July 16, 2016 at 2:51 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: Ok, and what do you understand by choice?

Choice is the free will to choose between once one option or another.

But isn't choosing between one option or another what choice means? So we could use these two ways of expressing the same idea interchangeably, yes? And so, we've got:

Quote: The act of choosing is the free will of choosing.

Now, cut out the middleman entirely and we've got:

Quote: The act of choosing is choosing.

Or, simpler:

Quote: Choosing is choosing.

What I want to ask you is, what does the idea of free will add to that tautological statement so that it adds some tangible meaning to it?

This is fucking awesome:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV5_bHwaUBM