(July 26, 2016 at 11:17 pm)PETE_ROSE Wrote: I'm still here!  Got a little busy at work tonight.  Cannot help but notice some are getting hung up dissecting my question about what is truth and such.  I attempted to remove all ambiguity and pose the question flatly.   I often see reasoning to the effect that many dismiss Christianity due to lack of evidence.   I'm questioning who would follow and worship Christ if they knew Christianity and what it purports to be true.

Who's version of what Christianity purports to be true? It's highly subjective to interpretation.

Suffice it to say that any version that includes vicarious redemption/atonement, eternal punishment, or righteous genocide - to name a few elements - is a non-starter for me.

(July 27, 2016 at 12:30 pm)robvalue Wrote: I guess we're seeing the distinct split in approaches here. Kiss the ass of the scariest looking thing around, or just get on with things.

I'd only kiss ass if I thought I could somehow trick the thing and use this to escape punishment, save others, or whatever. But expecting to trick a "God" is a bit silly.

This does seem to sum it up nicely. Another interesting question, on similar lines, would then be: if Christians (or adherents to other faiths) were shown undeniable evidence that God didn't exist - how many of them would embrace atheism? Very hypothetical of course...

People need to spend less time worrying about the "next" world and start worrying about this one.

(July 26, 2016 at 9:42 pm)PETE_ROSE Wrote: Hope everyone is having a wonderful summer!  Thank you to everyone in the forum for your insightful contributions, I am always challenged intellectually with much of what I read here.   I have a quick question for my non theist compadres:  

If you discovered personally acceptable truth (whatever that may be for you) that the Christian God revealed in the bible was authentic, would you choose to serve and worship him?  If yes, why?  If no, feel free to elaborate as to why as well.  

I observe there are many former Christians and very knowledgable people here on the content of the bible, I look forward to hearing your responses.  

Again, I really do hope everyone is enjoying their summer!

I'm a bit late to the party, but I'll add my contribution.


If I was convinced that the Christian god does indeed exist, I would have no choice in believing in him.

But no, I would not worship or serve him.

First of all, any being that requires me to worship and served him, or face eternal punishment, does not deserve
either.

Second, if his actions, laws and proclamations, as depicted in the Bible, are accurate representations of this god, he is a moral monster, and definitely does not deserve worship.

I can't think of a much worse universe, than one where the Christian god actually existed.

(July 27, 2016 at 7:03 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(July 26, 2016 at 9:42 pm)PETE_ROSE Wrote: Hope everyone is having a wonderful summer!  Thank you to everyone in the forum for your insightful contributions, I am always challenged intellectually with much of what I read here.   I have a quick question for my non theist compadres:  

If you discovered personally acceptable truth (whatever that may be for you) that the Christian God revealed in the bible was authentic, would you choose to serve and worship him?  If yes, why?  If no, feel free to elaborate as to why as well.  

I observe there are many former Christians and very knowledgable people here on the content of the bible, I look forward to hearing your responses.  

Again, I really do hope everyone is enjoying their summer!

I'm a bit late to the party, but I'll add my contribution.


If I was convinced that the Christian god does indeed exist, I would have no choice in believing in him.

But no, I would not worship or serve him.

First of all, any being that requires me to worship and served him, or face eternal punishment, does not deserve
either.

Second, if his actions, laws and proclamations, as depicted in the Bible, are accurate representations of this god, he is a moral monster, and definitely does not deserve worship.

I can't think of a much worse universe, than one where the Christian god actually existed.

What you've considered deserving of worship - within the context of this hypothetical - means nada!

(July 27, 2016 at 1:10 am)Nihilist Virus Wrote:

(July 26, 2016 at 9:42 pm)PETE_ROSE Wrote: Hope everyone is having a wonderful summer!  Thank you to everyone in the forum for your insightful contributions, I am always challenged intellectually with much of what I read here.   I have a quick question for my non theist compadres:  

If you discovered personally acceptable truth (whatever that may be for you) that the Christian God revealed in the bible was authentic, would you choose to serve and worship him?  If yes, why?  If no, feel free to elaborate as to why as well.  

I observe there are many former Christians and very knowledgable people here on the content of the bible, I look forward to hearing your responses.  

Again, I really do hope everyone is enjoying their summer!

Quid pro quo, I'll answer yours if you answer mine:

Would you remain a Christian if you woke up one day and literally all other humans on earth stopped believing in Christianity? Churches were shutting down, preachers with no professional skills started working at McDonald's, etc. Just you in the faith. Will you continue?

My faith is not based on what any person walking this planet believes in or doesn't. I dislike most churches and organized religion and wouldn't mind seeing many close their doors.

However, in the spirit of what I think the intent of the question is and what others have posed, if I saw irrefutable evidence such as Odin's return for the final battle would I cast aside Christianity and grind my axes, yes.

But it would have to be irrefutable tangible proof that deeply satisfied me. Not the common I found a contradiction with science and the bible, therefore I can summarily discount Christianity. These instances are always an opinion. I would add there are very smart people that have examined the same science and come to a different conclusion.

(July 27, 2016 at 1:10 am)Nihilist Virus Wrote:

(July 26, 2016 at 9:42 pm)PETE_ROSE Wrote: Hope everyone is having a wonderful summer!  Thank you to everyone in the forum for your insightful contributions, I am always challenged intellectually with much of what I read here.   I have a quick question for my non theist compadres:  

If you discovered personally acceptable truth (whatever that may be for you) that the Christian God revealed in the bible was authentic, would you choose to serve and worship him?  If yes, why?  If no, feel free to elaborate as to why as well.  

I observe there are many former Christians and very knowledgable people here on the content of the bible, I look forward to hearing your responses.  

Again, I really do hope everyone is enjoying their summer!

Quid pro quo, I'll answer yours if you answer mine:

Would you remain a Christian if you woke up one day and literally all other humans on earth stopped believing in Christianity? Churches were shutting down, preachers with no professional skills started working at McDonald's, etc. Just you in the faith. Will you continue?

My faith is not based on what any person walking this planet believes in or doesn't. I dislike most churches and organized religion and wouldn't mind seeing many close their doors.

However, in the spirit of what I think the intent of the question is and what others have posed, if I saw irrefutable evidence such as Odin's return for the final battle would I cast aside Christianity and grind my axes, yes.

But it would have to be irrefutable tangible proof that deeply satisfied me. Not the common I found a contradiction with science and the bible, therefore I can summarily discount Christianity. These instances are always an opinion. I would add there are very smart people that have examined the same science and come to a different conclusion.

(July 26, 2016 at 11:17 pm)PETE_ROSE Wrote: I'm still here!  Got a little busy at work tonight.  Cannot help but notice some are getting hung up dissecting my question about what is truth and such.  I attempted to remove all ambiguity and pose the question flatly.   I often see reasoning to the effect that many dismiss Christianity due to lack of evidence.   I'm questioning who would follow and worship Christ if they knew Christianity and what it purports to be true.

(emphasis is mine)

Christianity purports a gawd that orders atrocities and/or stands by while atrocities are committed in it's name. My morality would not allow me to worship a gawd like that.

If the gawd of the buy-bull were the leader of a nation in the modern world, it would be a dictator to make Saddam look like a saint. Millions would die under it's "leadership," any nation within it's reach would be invaded and it's people brutally murdered and it would eventually be put down like a rabid dog.

(July 27, 2016 at 11:20 am)Thena323 Wrote: However, if I were confident that the torment of Hell was finite

The problem with this is that the torments of hell or heaven, if they do indeed exist, are both eternal. When eternity is the curse, the initial conditions hardly matter. After a few billion years either will be unbearably tortuous and yet, you're still right at the beginning of forever.

The "eternal life after death" concept is the single most frightening thing man kind has ever dreamed up!

(July 28, 2016 at 10:25 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote:

(July 27, 2016 at 11:20 am)Thena323 Wrote: However, if I were confident that the torment of Hell was finite

The problem with this is that the torments of hell or heaven, if they do indeed exist, are both eternal. When eternity is the curse, the initial conditions hardly matter. After a few billion years either will be unbearably tortuous and yet, you're still right at the beginning of forever.

The "eternal life after death" concept is the single most frightening thing man kind has ever dreamed up!

I agree it is frightening either way. Although there are some that take the annihilation view of hell, I do not believe the scripture supports this.

I think about it a lot. Eternity seems like a really long time.