If you believe in God, then how to behave is simple: This life is transient and if you do good things you will spend the rest of eternity in Heaven, whereas, if you behave badly you go to Hell for eternity. If you truly believe in God, then you cannot question the morality of this because God, being perfect, could not be in error.

If you do not believe in God, then this life is still a fleeting transient moment compared to the age of the universe, but how to behave is not so clear. Since this is the one and only existence, then the only rational course is to pursue those things that serve your own ends and maximise the pleasure and happiness of your short vacation from the dark abyss of eternity.

With regard to the latter, this means that the only grounds for altruism is if you happen to be a person who enjoys putting others before yourself. If you happen to be selfish thats OK too. The only thing you need to avoid is breaking the Law, since this may take away your freedom which would diminish your existence. Apart from that, it is a free for all - a morality of ends?

I say just live your life however you want as long as you don't harm anyone else or infringe upon their rights, and don't be a dick to anyone.

In other words, I subscribe to the Bill & Ted philosophy: Be excellent to each other, and party on, dudes!

Quote:If you believe in God, then how to behave is simple: This life is transient and if you do good things you will spend the rest of eternity in Heaven, whereas, if you behave badly you go to Hell for eternity. If you truly believe in God, then you cannot question the morality of this because God, being perfect, could not be in error.

That's a little simplistic, Diff. You see most of the fuckwits have a built in "get out of hell free" card. It works this way. They do whatever the fuck they want and then ask their invisible sky-daddy to forgive them. Magically, or perhaps stupidly, no matter how many times they do the same thing their sky-daddy always pats them on the head and tells them that every thing is okay.




Edit: Wow, 6,000 posts. I have got to get a fucking life!!!!

(May 12, 2011 at 3:47 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: I say just live your life however you want as long as you don't harm anyone else or infringe upon their rights, and don't be a dick to anyone.

In other words, I subscribe to the Bill & Ted philosophy: Be excellent to each other, and party on, dudes!

That is a great philosophy - but my point is, that there is no imperative for anyone to adopt it in the Atheistic view of the world.

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(May 12, 2011 at 3:57 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:If you believe in God, then how to behave is simple: This life is transient and if you do good things you will spend the rest of eternity in Heaven, whereas, if you behave badly you go to Hell for eternity. If you truly believe in God, then you cannot question the morality of this because God, being perfect, could not be in error.

That's a little simplistic, Diff. You see most of the fuckwits have a built in "get out of hell free" card. It works this way. They do whatever the fuck they want and then ask their invisible sky-daddy to forgive them. Magically, or perhaps stupidly, no matter how many times they do the same thing their sky-daddy always pats them on the head and tells them that every thing is okay.


Not really - you see in those Religeon's that allow some kind of forgiveness, it is also required that at the very heart of your being, you really have changed in some way and that you genuinely repent for your previous actions. This is incredibly difficult (almost impossible) for someone who has a propensity towards evil. It cannot be faked, since God would see through the charade. For example, it would be no use going to confession (in Catholicism) and expecting forgiveness, unless at the very heart of your being you had changed and were repulsed by your previous behaviour.

Edit: Wow, 6,000 posts. I have got to get a fucking life!!!!

(May 12, 2011 at 4:20 pm)diffidus Wrote:

(May 12, 2011 at 3:47 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: I say just live your life however you want as long as you don't harm anyone else or infringe upon their rights, and don't be a dick to anyone.

In other words, I subscribe to the Bill & Ted philosophy: Be excellent to each other, and party on, dudes!

That is a great philosophy - but my point is, that there is no imperative for anyone to adopt it in the Atheistic view of the world.

So what you're saying is this philosophy would be good as long as we strong-armed everyone into believing it like God?

(May 12, 2011 at 4:44 pm)FaithNoMore Wrote:

(May 12, 2011 at 4:20 pm)diffidus Wrote:

(May 12, 2011 at 3:47 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: I say just live your life however you want as long as you don't harm anyone else or infringe upon their rights, and don't be a dick to anyone.

In other words, I subscribe to the Bill & Ted philosophy: Be excellent to each other, and party on, dudes!

That is a great philosophy - but my point is, that there is no imperative for anyone to adopt it in the Atheistic view of the world.

So what you're saying is this philosophy would be good as long as we strong-armed everyone into believing it like God?

I am saying that if you do not believe in God, then almost anything (within the law) goes due to the fleeting nature of this vacation from eternity.

Quote:It cannot be faked, since God would see through the charade.

People who believe in god make him act in whatever way suits them. That's the beauty of it.

The catholics give you a few prayers to say.


Some (maybe most) protestants merely require you to believe... Ted Bundy could get into heaven as long as he "accepts" fucking jesus before they execute him.

The muslims think that if you blow up a bus load of people god loves your sorry ass.

The jews used to murder a small animal until the Romans burned down their fucking temple!

'God' is a very malleable concept!

So what you're trying to insinuate is that atheists have no need for morals?

Thats bullshit of the stinkiest variety.

(May 12, 2011 at 4:53 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:It cannot be faked, since God would see through the charade.

People who believe in god make him act in whatever way suits them. That's the beauty of it.

The catholics give you a few prayers to say.


Some (maybe most) protestants merely require you to believe... Ted Bundy could get into heaven as long as he "accepts" fucking jesus before they execute him.

The muslims think that if you blow up a bus load of people god loves your sorry ass.

The jews used to murder a small animal until the Romans burned down their fucking temple!

'God' is a very malleable concept!

You are correct that God is a malleable concept to people but this does not mean that people can manipulate God. (Taking the Devil's advocate low probability predicate that God may exist)

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(May 12, 2011 at 5:04 pm)Napoleon666 Wrote: So what you're trying to insinuate is that atheists have no need for morals?

Thats bullshit of the stinkiest variety.

You seem to have got very prickly about the logic of my argument!

(May 12, 2011 at 2:58 pm)diffidus Wrote: the only rational course is to pursue those things that serve your own ends and maximise the pleasure and happiness

I think most folks, religious or not, subscribe to this. Even the most altruistic of actions, by the way, has some selfish motives. When you help someone out of a crisis of some sort, for example, it also affords you some happiness and self-worth. Help others help yourself.

But yeah life is fleeting. Might as well find some kind of distraction in the meantime.