That's a ridiculous conclusion. Plant moves to Mexico - all jobs lost. Plant adds $16 million of automation - some jobs lost, some still there.

I think the more concerning thing is his explanation that workers in Mexico are so exploitable. 80% lower wages and very low rates of absenteeism and turnover. One might look at that and figure that US workers are just lazier. Another way to consider it is that US workers aren't as easy to hold hostage. Either way, it's an advantage that we cannot compete against and cannot fight the way Trump proposed during his campaign-- with crippling tariffs. I think the US is entering a new phase in our history whether we want to or not, and the sooner we acknowledge that the sooner we can start to figure out how to deal with it.

(December 6, 2016 at 10:53 am)Tonus Wrote: I think the more concerning thing is his explanation that workers in Mexico are so exploitable.  80% lower wages and very low rates of absenteeism and turnover.  One might look at that and figure that US workers are just lazier.  Another way to consider it is that US workers aren't as easy to hold hostage.

There's a reason for the illegal immigration.

It seems as if we could solve a lot of problems by annexing Mexico.

(December 6, 2016 at 10:49 am)alpha male Wrote: That's a ridiculous conclusion. Plant moves to Mexico - all jobs lost. Plant adds $16 million of automation - some jobs lost, some still there.

And how much in sweetners and opportunity costs is paid up to keep them there? Would it not be better for the government to tell carrier to fuck off to Mexico and invest in companies that give secure jobs and don't want endless piles of corporate welfare?

(December 6, 2016 at 11:40 am)Tonus Wrote: It seems as if we could solve a lot of problems by annexing Mexico.

I'm sure they wouldn't complain. They all want to move here anyways.

Oh, my.... looks like Drumpf is full of shit.  What a surprise!

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/12/steelwor...rier-deal/

Quote:Steelworkers Union president slams Trump for ‘lying his ass off’ about Carrier deal

Quote:The president of the steelworkers union representing Carrier employees said Donald Trump “lied his ass off” when he boasted about saving jobs at the Indianapolis, Indiana plant last Thursday.
Chuck Jones, who heads United Steelworkers 1999, told the Washington Post he originally felt optimistic about the deal the president-elect struck with United Technologies, the parent company that owns Carrier. But when he learned that that 550 members were still losing their jobs, he assumed Trump would use the Dec. 1 meeting to explain where his team fell short.
“But he got up there, and, for whatever reason, lied his ass off,” Jones said.

Hope you learned your lesson never to trust a republicunt, pal.

(December 6, 2016 at 7:03 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Oh, my.... looks like Drumpf is full of shit.  What a surprise!

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/12/steelwor...rier-deal/

Quote:Steelworkers Union president slams Trump for ‘lying his ass off’ about Carrier deal

Quote:The president of the steelworkers union representing Carrier employees said Donald Trump “lied his ass off” when he boasted about saving jobs at the Indianapolis, Indiana plant last Thursday.
Chuck Jones, who heads United Steelworkers 1999, told the Washington Post he originally felt optimistic about the deal the president-elect struck with United Technologies, the parent company that owns Carrier. But when he learned that that 550 members were still losing their jobs, he assumed Trump would use the Dec. 1 meeting to explain where his team fell short.
“But he got up there, and, for whatever reason, lied his ass off,” Jones said.

Hope you learned your lesson never to trust a republicunt, pal.

This country will be a lot economically stronger in 4 years than it is now. You will deny it though.

(December 6, 2016 at 10:53 am)Tonus Wrote: I think the more concerning thing is his explanation that workers in Mexico are so exploitable.  80% lower wages and very low rates of absenteeism and turnover.  One might look at that and figure that US workers are just lazier.  Another way to consider it is that US workers aren't as easy to hold hostage.  Either way, it's an advantage that we cannot compete against and cannot fight the way Trump proposed during his campaign-- with crippling tariffs.  I think the US is entering a new phase in our history whether we want to or not, and the sooner we acknowledge that the sooner we can start to figure out how to deal with it.

These are not the only factors. Productivity is the major factor.

The biggest single reasons for wages being lower in other countries is because productivity is lower. This productivity is hard to disaggregate. Part of it comes from a lack of capitalization (less machinery per worker) part of it comes from less training/sophistication of the workers.

That said, the reason the jobs are moving is often that the marginal productivity is still higher than the wage being paid: eg wages are 80% less but productivity is say (to pull a number out of thin air) 50-60% less => a marginal benefit to move.

Then there's the other factors: being further from your destination markets adds communication and logistical costs. 

What I'm getting at is that the decision to outsource is often a hell of a lot more marginal than most people realize. Like 10-20% savings.

Lo and behold, Carrier raises prices.

Quote:United Technologies Corp., Carrier's parent company, said it is raising prices for its heating, ventilation, and air conditioning equipment by up to 5%, starting January 1. The decision to raise prices was first announced on November 23, the week before the Trump deal was finalized.

Quote:The manufacturer said its decision to raise prices was unrelated to the Carrier's decision to keep some jobs in Indianapolis.

I call bullshit.