(May 1, 2017 at 8:49 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: People who carry in public are called "donors". They are in a great position to donate their guns to criminals.

I will be glad to donate to the criminals. 115 grains of hollow point jacketed lead at a time.

[quote pid='1547128' dateline='1493663871']
I expect someone will say "you know, your gun is more likely to be used against you than save you." I say BS to that. I hope I never have to use a firearm to protect myself. But I know I can and will should I be put in that situation.

Primum non nocere.
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There are an awful lot of examples in Minimalist "All hail the Second Amendment" to the contrary.    Now you have a loaded gun in the house for protection and a nine year old son who see's a father too scared to leave home without packing heat.  What could go wrong?

I own a gun as well.  It's a hunting rifle.  I don't carry it with me for protection, and I don't have a children in the house.  I refuse to live my life running scared like so many people seem to be doing these days.  I hear from my mother how "bad" things are, but violent crime rates were much worse in the early 80's (On Reagan's watch).  If you look at murder rates per capita, it was as bad during the great depression as it was in the 1980's.  People forget history.

I had an attempted break in as well, and I don't even have a security system.  They made enough noise coming up the deck stairs at 2AM to trigger the barking of two 150lb Great Danes, and ran for the hills.

(May 1, 2017 at 4:41 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(May 1, 2017 at 2:37 pm)Nanny Wrote: I lean classical liberal politically.

I choose to own firearms for sport and protection. I used to shoot trap competitively. It's still one of the only times that I get completely absorbed in the game. I don't think about work or family stuff, the bills or other stress. It's just the next target. Pure losing oneself in play.

When my wife was pregnant with my son, we had an attempted break in. Middle of the night, alarm sounds, faults at front door and dining room window. Screwdriver jammed into the deadbolt. It was while racking buckshot into my 870 that night that I decided to get my concealed carry permit. That was 9 years ago. I carry concealed (Sig P245) whenever I'm out with my family except where barred legally (e.g. schools, fed buildings, etc).

I used to be more idealistic - handguns are bad, why would I "need" one?. Pandora's box is open. I'm no match for a young, fit, motivated bad guy. I chose to carry solely because it's my job to protect my family. YMMV.

I expect someone will say "you know, your gun is more likely to be used against you than save you." I say BS to that. I hope I never have to use a firearm to protect myself. But I know I can and will should I be put in that situation.

Primum non nocere.

You got your house broken into, and what happened? According to you it was still "attempted" which means you still did not use your firearm.

It is far more likely, just like a bear in the woods, that if you make a loud noise before they see you, that will be enough. Introducing a firearm into a conflict is far more likely to get, especially those who don't deal with stress situations on a daily basis, like a cop or military, injured or killed.

"I know I can", yep, a lot like a person who says " I've only had a couple of drinks, I make it home all the time".......

FOR YOU, not me, but for you, that kind of thought is dangerous. The bullshit idea that because "I lock my gun up", "I wouldn't do that" "I know what I am doing"...... I bet if you ask enough cops who show up to a suicide, domestic injury, or death, any type of gun death, I bet they could tell you lots of stories of "I had the right" or "I didn't mean it".

Unless you are a legal lawyer, don't play street lawyer. Unless your job is being a cop or military, don't assume you know what you are doing because locking up your weapon and hitting a target not under stress, is not the same as firing under high stress.

Your attitude is the same fucking crap I have heard from pot smokers and drinkers. Problem is in real life, it only takes one mistake with a gun. ONE. 

I trust gun owners more who never make the attempt to make this argument you just made. The ones who do I fear far more. More for themselves, but also for the flooded market they either willingly or unwittingly protect. 

Firing a firearm for a living is far different under stress than it is for a layperson who is less likely to have to deal with that stress. 

Famous last words, "I know what I am doing". I could give a shit less about your intent. YOU should care about your own training, and if you don't deal with conflict resolution every day, and you are not trained to stress shoot, don't stupidly think every gunfight ends with John Wayne ending up riding off in the sunset.

Sigh. Let me sum up your argument: "I am not responsible enough to own firearms so no one else should." You are a Nanny who thinks they know what's best for others. And you attempt to make things personal with invective. Noted. Go back to your high castle. Maybe learn some better vocabulary, too. Yours betrays your intellect.

(May 1, 2017 at 11:35 pm)KUSA Wrote:

(May 1, 2017 at 8:49 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: People who carry in public are called "donors". They are in a great position to donate their guns to criminals.

I will be glad to donate to the criminals. 115 grains of hollow point jacketed lead at a time.

Okay, you're walking down the sidewalk with an AR-15 over your shoulder. I walk behind you and stick a knife in your kidney and take the long gun in exchange. Congrats, you've donated to a criminal.

(May 1, 2017 at 11:35 pm)KUSA Wrote:

(May 1, 2017 at 8:49 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: People who carry in public are called "donors". They are in a great position to donate their guns to criminals.

I will be glad to donate to the criminals. 115 grains of hollow point jacketed lead at a time.

It's always the drunk driver who does it over and over, then crashes only to realize it only takes one time.

The gun owners who DONT brag about how good they are with guns are the ones I think take ownership seriously and I would trust far more owning one. The ones who talk like Dirty Harry, are far more likely to get stupid while owning one.

Keep thinking you are hot shit buddy, I hope your false sense of security doesn't get you needlessly injured or killed.

You do understand that cops and military are trained in stress use of a firearm and most civilians are not trained in stress use of a firearm. Hate to burst your bubble buddy, you are STILL far more likely to injure yourself or someone you know while handling a firearm than you would be successfully defending yourself from a stranger aiming a firearm at you.

There is alot more to defending yourself successfully with a firearm than your good intent. Cops and military have to constantly train for use of a firearm under stress. It isn't a simple as target shooting. 

How many hours a week do you train for stress use of a firearm? Target shooting is not the same thing.

---

(May 2, 2017 at 8:46 am)Nanny Wrote:

(May 1, 2017 at 4:41 pm)Brian37 Wrote: You got your house broken into, and what happened? According to you it was still "attempted" which means you still did not use your firearm.

It is far more likely, just like a bear in the woods, that if you make a loud noise before they see you, that will be enough. Introducing a firearm into a conflict is far more likely to get, especially those who don't deal with stress situations on a daily basis, like a cop or military, injured or killed.

"I know I can", yep, a lot like a person who says " I've only had a couple of drinks, I make it home all the time".......

FOR YOU, not me, but for you, that kind of thought is dangerous. The bullshit idea that because "I lock my gun up", "I wouldn't do that" "I know what I am doing"...... I bet if you ask enough cops who show up to a suicide, domestic injury, or death, any type of gun death, I bet they could tell you lots of stories of "I had the right" or "I didn't mean it".

Unless you are a legal lawyer, don't play street lawyer. Unless your job is being a cop or military, don't assume you know what you are doing because locking up your weapon and hitting a target not under stress, is not the same as firing under high stress.

Your attitude is the same fucking crap I have heard from pot smokers and drinkers. Problem is in real life, it only takes one mistake with a gun. ONE. 

I trust gun owners more who never make the attempt to make this argument you just made. The ones who do I fear far more. More for themselves, but also for the flooded market they either willingly or unwittingly protect. 

Firing a firearm for a living is far different under stress than it is for a layperson who is less likely to have to deal with that stress. 

Famous last words, "I know what I am doing". I could give a shit less about your intent. YOU should care about your own training, and if you don't deal with conflict resolution every day, and you are not trained to stress shoot, don't stupidly think every gunfight ends with John Wayne ending up riding off in the sunset.

Sigh. Let me sum up your argument: "I am not responsible enough to own firearms so no one else should." You are a Nanny who thinks they know what's best for others. And you attempt to make things personal with invective. Noted. Go back to your high castle. Maybe learn some better vocabulary, too. Yours betrays your intellect.

OH FUCK OFF, 

This is just more paranoid bullshit on your part. NEVER in anyone of my posts here have I ever said "get rid of all firearms". Now PUT UP OR SHUT THE FUCK UP! QUOTE ME WHERE I SAID "GET RID OF ALL GUNS"..... You wont find that I have never advocated a ban on all guns. SO FUCKING KNOCK IT OFF.

Saying we don't need to make as many, and saying we need a better vetting process is NOT a call for an all out ban. 

You sound just as fucking paranoid as the car companies in the 1970s when Nadar said cars have a problem.

Nobody is trying to dictate to you moron! If anything 1 profit lobby is holding our entire nation hostage. MOST Americans INCLUDING MOST GUN OWNERS want a universal background check. 

Liberals own guns too. 

You are the one who thinks you know whats best for say, the victims of Newtown or Pulse "sucks to be you".  So anyone objecting to our gun laws doesn't have a right to vote? 

You are not making one fucking pragmatic argument moron. Don't even pretend you are.

I am not going to repeat this again. 

I DON'T WANT ALL FIREARMS BANNED............. But I do have the right to vote, don't like it, TOUGH SHIT.

If we didn't have a gun injury/death problem in America nobody would be bitching. But in a free society voting occurs and gun makers and the NRA don't have the right to dictate to everyone. Now, you can work with us, we'd love that, but no, we've done the "do nothing, sell more" crap, and the last time the right cared about gun injury was when Reagan got shot, since then the right have gone insane and been hijacked by nuts. If the NRA was still the safety non profit org it started out as, I would have no problem with it. But is is nothing more than a heat shield for gun factories. Much like big tobacco created a "smokers rights" lobby in an attempt to avoid being called out for their bad  marketing.

IF YOU WANT A GUN nobody is stopping you IDIOT. All the sane want is better laws so that people DONT have the ability to get guns if they are mentally ill, domestic abusers, or anti government or religious terrorists. Maybe you find things like VA tech or Roof acceptable, "just because", but I don't.

My voting is my right and my voting DOES NOT mean I am dictating to you. GROW THE FUCK UP.

T.rump recently said "The eight assault on your 2nd Amendment rights is over," wildly pandering the NRA audience. As there was no Presidential assault on any constitutional right T.rump is just making matters worse.

(May 2, 2017 at 9:51 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(May 1, 2017 at 11:35 pm)KUSA Wrote: I will be glad to donate to the criminals. 115 grains of hollow point jacketed lead at a time.

Okay, you're walking down the sidewalk with an AR-15 over your shoulder. I walk behind you and stick a knife in your kidney and take the long gun in exchange. Congrats, you've donated to a criminal.

Nope. I don't walk down the sidewalk with an AR15. I have a concealed handgun.

If you walk up behind me and stick me in the kidney, I will turn around and put at least two rounds in your face and then call 911.

(May 2, 2017 at 3:07 pm)KUSA Wrote:

(May 2, 2017 at 9:51 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Okay, you're walking down the sidewalk with an AR-15 over your shoulder. I walk behind you and stick a knife in your kidney and take the long gun in exchange. Congrats, you've donated to a criminal.

Nope. I don't walk down the sidewalk with an AR15. I have a concealed handgun.

If you walk up behind me and stick me in the kidney, I will turn around and put at least two rounds in your face and then call 911.

I'll at least give you that. Yea, nobody needs to be walking down the street with an open AR-15 and nobody really needs one in any case. I do think far too many people confuse wants with needs. You need a car, you want a Lamborghini. You need food, you want Beluga caviar. 

But again, what makes you think open or not, that every time you introduce a gun into a conflict where the person you are confronting has one too, that the outcome will always have you winning? Because why? Your intent? Reality doesn't give one fuck about your intent. In real life using a firearm under stressful conflict requires constant training. Your intent does not equal training.

If someone walks up  behind you and sticks a gun in your back, the odds of you pulling your gun out and hitting them before they pull the trigger, is pretty damned slim. If you are smart odds are you give them what they want and you walk away alive. The only way to be prepared in a gunfight, is to know ahead of time WITH stress training, what you are getting into. It isn't enough to simply mentally masturbate with "In this case, I would do this".

Your mentality is dangerous TO YOU. You are confusing your own good intent while ignoring the training it takes to use a firearm properly. 

Even outside the issue of guns. I have seen this bullshit testosterone mentality even with mere fist fights. "If you called my mother a whore, I'd beat the shit out of you"...... I've seen lots of people claim "I know what I am doing" and play street lawyer and say what they would do, then end up in trouble.

I am sure you have good intent and think you know what you are doing. But, just like god belief, I think you are merely giving yourself a false sense of comfort. With guns, there is no room for error and it only takes one mistake to end up hurting yourself or others even unintentionally.  Target shooting is not the same as stress shooting. Stress use of a firearm is constant training not a one time class.

(May 2, 2017 at 3:24 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(May 2, 2017 at 3:07 pm)KUSA Wrote: Nope. I don't walk down the sidewalk with an AR15. I have a concealed handgun.

If you walk up behind me and stick me in the kidney, I will turn around and put at least two rounds in your face and then call 911.

I'll at least give you that. Yea, nobody needs to be walking down the street with an open AR-15 and nobody really needs one in any case. I do think far too many people confuse wants with needs. You need a car, you want a Lamborghini. You need food, you want Beluga caviar. 

But again, what makes you think open or not, that every time you introduce a gun into a conflict where the person you are confronting has one too, that the outcome will always have you winning? Because why? Your intent? Reality doesn't give one fuck about your intent. In real life using a firearm under stressful conflict requires constant training. Your intent does not equal training.

If someone walks up  behind you and sticks a gun in your back, the odds of you pulling your gun out and hitting them before they pull the trigger, is pretty damned slim. If you are smart odds are you give them what they want and you walk away alive. The only way to be prepared in a gunfight, is to know ahead of time WITH stress training, what you are getting into. It isn't enough to simply mentally masturbate with "In this case, I would do this".

Your mentality is dangerous TO YOU. You are confusing your own good intent while ignoring the training it takes to use a firearm properly. 

Even outside the issue of guns. I have seen this bullshit testosterone mentality even with mere fist fights. "If you called my mother a whore, I'd beat the shit out of you"...... I've seen lots of people claim "I know what I am doing" and play street lawyer and say what they would do, then end up in trouble.

I am sure you have good intent and think you know what you are doing. But, just like god belief, I think you are merely giving yourself a false sense of comfort. With guns, there is no room for error and it only takes one mistake to end up hurting yourself or others even unintentionally.  Target shooting is not the same as stress shooting. Stress use of a firearm is constant training not a one time class.

You don't know anything about my training or skills or how I behave.

I avoid sketchy looking places. I don't look for trouble, on the contrary I avoid it.

The gun is the last ditch effort to protect myself or family. You don't and won't agree with that and I'm ok with it. You keep preaching long sermons about guns and really I just skip over it like it's a broken record because that's what it sounds like.

(May 2, 2017 at 3:07 pm)KUSA Wrote:

(May 2, 2017 at 9:51 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Okay, you're walking down the sidewalk with an AR-15 over your shoulder. I walk behind you and stick a knife in your kidney and take the long gun in exchange. Congrats, you've donated to a criminal.

Nope. I don't walk down the sidewalk with an AR15. I have a concealed handgun.

If you walk up behind me and stick me in the kidney, I will turn around and put at least two rounds in your face and then call 911.

Nice bluster.