(May 2, 2017 at 6:30 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: It's just part of the culture I suppose. There are a lot of people here who like to go shooting/hunting as a hobby, also people here like the idea of freedom from the government and they feel it is their right to own guns if they want to.

Reality doesn't give a fuck about anyone's feelings. Not yours not mine. What pisses me off about the far right on any issue, isn't that they have feelings, it is the utopia they build up in their brains that lacks any pragmatism.

You cant have no government, that never happens. Our species evolved to form social structures. For the same reason dictators like Un exist, and theocracies like Saudi Arabia exist, are the same reason our more pluralistic open west exist. Humans socialize and pooling power in numbers is how both friend and foe alike gain those power structures.

The often used bullshit argument against the left on guns is Hitler. The asshole right who brings up Hitler either are ignorant of history, or flat out lie about it and know better. When the allies defeated Germany after WW1 heavy arms regulations were part of the peace agreement. When Hitler gained absolute power right before starting WW2, he DID NOT ban all firearms. He extended gun rights to party loyalists while banning any political dissent or "undesirables" from legal ownership.

I get tired of explaining that it is not the rights I object to, it is the utopia attitude far too many go into when thinking about or owning a gun. Guns are not toys, and it isn't as simple as "no record at time of buy". Lots of teens think they know how to drive. I used to have a very lazy attitude about driving growing up. Took me a couple of speeding tickets and wrecks to take it seriously. 

I am sure KUSA along with most gun owners like to think it is a mater of "I wouldn't do that" or " I would do that" but again, reality doesn't give one fuck about your intent. I don't think KUSA is a bad guy, but just like on the issue of religion, I simply think he is falling for a utopia that does not exist.

KUSA is now saying "I have a concealed permit". Yea so what? To me that is as silly as thinking you have the same training as a Navel Seal. Sure it is by law legal, but to me a bare minimum. I think using a firearm takes far more training than most civilians want to accept. Owning a gun should not be treated like a pass time, it isn't a baseball game, even if you use it for target shooting for fun or for hunting. It is still a potential bomb regardless of your intent. Even with my driving, the one thing I finally grew up to realize, even with cars, and other vehicles on the road, the best attitude is to treat your vehicle as a weapon, no not aggressively, but keep your distance and know your speed. If you assume your car will kill, you are less likely to allow a distraction to get you into an accident. I don't see enough gun owners with that same attitude. They far too often treat it as if use will always end up like a Hollywood movie where the good guy always wins. 

I am not accusing KUSA of being a bad person, I am saying what he thinks is enough isn't the reality he wants it to be.

Again, he is arguing legality, I am arguing pragmatism.

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(May 2, 2017 at 6:33 pm)KUSA Wrote:

(May 2, 2017 at 4:52 pm)Brian37 Wrote: So you are stupidly assuming everyone who has ill intent has a knife?

Nope. You are asserting that.

Quote:Again what if they have a gun to your back or head? What then? You think life is a video game and they won't be able to pull the trigger before you draw? 

It is a video game. Have you ever heard of Duke Nukem? I would just enter the cheat code "God mode" and blast all the bad guys.

Quote:You might have a slight advantage over a knife sure, but what if the person has a gun?

God mode.

Quote:It is bluster. Knife or gun, reality does not give one fuck about your good intent. Constant training is what increases the survival of a stressful event, not the weapon itself.

I have honed my skilz on video games.

Quote:I think you should value more situational conflict training more than defaulting to use of a weapon of any kind. People also survive by deescalation and fleeing. Your brain, regardless is your most important tool. 

Not with God mode. I can do what I want.

Quote:Even outside the issue of guns, any sane lifeguard will tell you, TRAINING is what increases the chance, not only of your own survival, but also of the victim you are trying to save. 

I ain't playing in a pool.

Quote:Having a gun is not a utopia. It matters far more how you respond to stress, not the weapon you are facing. 

It is a utopia. When I hold it in my hand I feel the power of greyskull.

Quote:"I'm not going down without a fight" is Hollywood crap. Survival even with other life is adaptation, not always brawn or force.

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I have to think about my honor. A Thundercat never runs from Mumra.

Quote:KUSA, I grew up with nothing but bullies on my street. You'd be one of those guys who'd say "The only thing they understand is a fight". Not true, even when I did fight back, I got my ass kicked.

You should have made a superhero suit and kicked their ass.

Quote:That is more understandable as a kid. But as an adult you cant think like John Wayne or Dirty Harry or play street lawyer with a weapon.

I play John Holmes on the street.

Quote:I have avoided being robbed as an adult TWICE in my life without using a fire arm. I have also avoided being assaulted without a firearm as an adult. The reason I did, was situational awareness, remaining calm, and looking for the path of least resistance. Talk is cheap, and the ones who brag about being a hero are the ones most likely to be the first to get hurt.

So you have ninja skilz.

You are the idiot who thinks they can take on someone with a knife every single time and be success full every single time just because you have  gun. You know what I would do if someone pointed a knife at me? I would give them whatever the fuck they wanted, or I would run. 

The two times I avoided robbery was because of DISTANCE not brawn.

The first time was when I was working at a pizza chain. Got a call to a delivery to a motel. Prior to that our company had TRAINED US on protocol. It was drilled into our heads prior to leaving the store, never to get out of the vehicle if you have any suspicions about where you are going. A common robbery scam with pizza and cabs is they would call in a fake location you show up, they ambush you.

I showed up to this motel driving through the parking lot looking for the room number. I noticed a guy watching me, then suddenly run to hide behind split level open air sidewalk that split the two buildings. As soon as I realized I was on the other side of the building, I drove to the other side, only to see the same guy leaning over peering at me approaching on the room number called in. It struck me as odd, and they company said, if you are not sure always go to the lobby and and have them call the room and meet you at the lobby. I did that, and guess what, THE ROOM CALLED IN WAS NEVER RENTED. The guy watching me never stayed there, he called in a fake order walked over to the motel hoping to rob me. Probably had a car waiting a block or two way. 

A few years ago I had a guy who followed me in a empty parking lot slowly. I didn't shout at him, I didn't confront him, but I did notice the more I walked faster, the faster he drove. I simply ran into a busy Chinese food joint and guess what, he parked his car waiting and watching knowing I was walking.  When he saw that I was pointing his car out, he suddenly drove away circling the parking lot even around the back of the complex hoping I would not notice.

Even with bar conflicts. If you get in my face and threaten to hit me, my response is going to be "I am not going to fight you, but if you hit me, you'll go to jail, not me" I had that happen twice as an adult. I got called a wimp, but so what, I didn't get hit, and nobody ended up in the hospital. 

BRAINS matter more than the weapon. If you don't think with your brains no weapon will ever help you. Your ego is the problem, not your desire to survive.

You know nothing about me Brian. You make a straw man of me and tear it down.

Oh and thanks for calling me an idiot. I have been nothing but nice to you and you still call me names.

Would you call me names if we were face to face? I bet you wouldn't do it. Not because you would think that I would try to harm you but because you know better. It's just rude. It's easy to talk trash on the internet isn't it?

(May 2, 2017 at 7:44 pm)KUSA Wrote: You know nothing about me Brian. You make a straw man of me and tear it down.

Oh and thanks for calling me an idiot. I have been nothing but nice to you and you still call me names.

Would you call me names if we were face to face? I bet you wouldn't do it. Not because you would think that I would try to harm you but because you know better. It's just rude. It's easy to talk trash on the internet isn't it?

His only mode is relentlessly obstreperous.

In evolution, "fight" doesn't always equal success, that is simply testosterone talking. There are species of crabs and lizards that evolved to give up a limb and flee that end up re growing. While fight can succeed, flight wins as well. To think of "fight" as a default position is stupid. Survival doesn't care if flight wins, it is still survival.

ADAPTATION matters more than your own ego. The best intent in the world doesn't mean shit if you die.

(May 2, 2017 at 7:58 pm)Brian37 Wrote: In evolution, "fight" doesn't always equal success, that is simply testosterone talking. There are species of crabs and lizards that evolved to give up a limb and flee that end up re growing. While fight can succeed, flight wins as well. To think of "fight" as a default position is stupid. Survival doesn't care if flight wins, it is still survival.

ADAPTATION matters more than your own ego. The best intent in the world doesn't mean shit if you die.

And yet you'd carry openly...

(May 2, 2017 at 7:58 pm)Brian37 Wrote: In evolution, "fight" doesn't always equal success, that is simply testosterone talking. There are species of crabs and lizards that evolved to give up a limb and flee that end up re growing. While fight can succeed, flight wins as well. To think of "fight" as a default position is stupid. Survival doesn't care if flight wins, it is still survival.

ADAPTATION matters more than your own ego. The best intent in the world doesn't mean shit if you die.

Here is an example of how you straw man me. I know this post was directed at me so allow me to retort.

I always choose flight as the default way of getting out of a bad situation. The reason I carry a gun is when flight is not an option.

Now go ahead and insult me some more. It makes you feel powerful to insult someone on the internet doesn't it?

(May 2, 2017 at 7:44 pm)KUSA Wrote: You know nothing about me Brian. You make a straw man of me and tear it down.

Oh and thanks for calling me an idiot. I have been nothing but nice to you and you still call me names.

Would you call me names if we were face to face? I bet you wouldn't do it. Not because you would think that I would try to harm you but because you know better. It's just rude. It's easy to talk trash on the internet isn't it?

Knock it off. So I suppose your PM on ANOTHER website didn't mean shit to you? 

. No I would NOT say it to your face, because you are displaying immaturity. If you said "Mohammed married little girls" to Atlas, would that give him the right to beat the shit out of you?

Taking trash? You mean like talking about my mom whom you didn't know personally because you didn't like her financially supporting me?

So all that burying the hatchet on the OTHER website was bullshit?

When you say "I know what I am doing" I am NOT disputing your intent. I am saying your gun training you have is NOT the same as having the same training as a cop or combat. YOUR EGO is my problem, not your desire to live.

YES I am blunt about it. So? If we were face to face, could I trust you to leave it at a "fuck you Brian" and you walk away? If your desire to get physical with me over rides any realization that you'd be the one arrested not me, because I am NOT interested in a physical confrontation, then you are a FOOL. 

"You wouldn't say that to my face". Yep, so by your logic the Hebdo attackers were justified because someone picked on MO.

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I have NO interest in having power over you KUSA. I do have an interest in the totality of the society I live in and the government I live under. You not liking my word choice is your baggage. Didn't we BOTH agree that other people in other parts of the world have it worse than you and I do?

I am not about to coddle your insecurities. I am NOT out to get you despite what you might think.

I am NOT for an all out ban on all firearms. I am for PRAGMATISM without egos. I don't see that pragmatism in the way you respond. All I see is "me me me" "I have the right to" and you keep failing to see your attitude, NOT YOUR RIGHTS is what I am talking about.

Stop playing false martyr.

(May 2, 2017 at 12:22 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(May 1, 2017 at 11:35 pm)KUSA Wrote: I will be glad to donate to the criminals. 115 grains of hollow point jacketed lead at a time.

It's always the drunk driver who does it over and over, then crashes only to realize it only takes one time.

The gun owners who DONT brag about how good they are with guns are the ones I think take ownership seriously and I would trust far more owning one. The ones who talk like Dirty Harry, are far more likely to get stupid while owning one.

Keep thinking you are hot shit buddy, I hope your false sense of security doesn't get you needlessly injured or killed.

You do understand that cops and military are trained in stress use of a firearm and most civilians are not trained in stress use of a firearm. Hate to burst your bubble buddy, you are STILL far more likely to injure yourself or someone you know while handling a firearm than you would be successfully defending yourself from a stranger aiming a firearm at you.

There is alot more to defending yourself successfully with a firearm than your good intent. Cops and military have to constantly train for use of a firearm under stress. It isn't a simple as target shooting. 

How many hours a week do you train for stress use of a firearm? Target shooting is not the same thing.

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(May 2, 2017 at 8:46 am)Nanny Wrote: Sigh. Let me sum up your argument: "I am not responsible enough to own firearms so no one else should." You are a Nanny who thinks they know what's best for others. And you attempt to make things personal with invective. Noted. Go back to your high castle. Maybe learn some better vocabulary, too. Yours betrays your intellect.

OH FUCK OFF, 

This is just more paranoid bullshit on your part. NEVER in anyone of my posts here have I ever said "get rid of all firearms". Now PUT UP OR SHUT THE FUCK UP! QUOTE ME WHERE I SAID "GET RID OF ALL GUNS"..... You wont find that I have never advocated a ban on all guns. SO FUCKING KNOCK IT OFF.

Saying we don't need to make as many, and saying we need a better vetting process is NOT a call for an all out ban. 

You sound just as fucking paranoid as the car companies in the 1970s when Nadar said cars have a problem.

Nobody is trying to dictate to you moron! If anything 1 profit lobby is holding our entire nation hostage. MOST Americans INCLUDING MOST GUN OWNERS want a universal background check. 

Liberals own guns too. 

You are the one who thinks you know whats best for say, the victims of Newtown or Pulse "sucks to be you".  So anyone objecting to our gun laws doesn't have a right to vote? 

You are not making one fucking pragmatic argument moron. Don't even pretend you are.

I am not going to repeat this again. 

I DON'T WANT ALL FIREARMS BANNED............. But I do have the right to vote, don't like it, TOUGH SHIT.

If we didn't have a gun injury/death problem in America nobody would be bitching. But in a free society voting occurs and gun makers and the NRA don't have the right to dictate to everyone. Now, you can work with us, we'd love that, but no, we've done the "do nothing, sell more" crap, and the last time the right cared about gun injury was when Reagan got shot, since then the right have gone insane and been hijacked by nuts. If the NRA was still the safety non profit org it started out as, I would have no problem with it. But is is nothing more than a heat shield for gun factories. Much like big tobacco created a "smokers rights" lobby in an attempt to avoid being called out for their bad  marketing.

IF YOU WANT A GUN nobody is stopping you IDIOT. All the sane want is better laws so that people DONT have the ability to get guns if they are mentally ill, domestic abusers, or anti government or religious terrorists. Maybe you find things like VA tech or Roof acceptable, "just because", but I don't.

My voting is my right and my voting DOES NOT mean I am dictating to you. GROW THE FUCK UP.

Wow. Must've struck a nerve. 

You are wildly polemic with limited vocabulary. Happy trolling to you.

Edit:

You also seem to make assumptions and read into statements.

I said I shot trap competitively. You must've missed that. Been an owner of firearms for 21 years.
I did not mention that the goons who tried to break in were clients of the dealer across the street. Some jerk who moved in after we were there for a few years. We learned not to open the door before verifying who was on the other side. We installed steel doors front and back. I applied for my carry permit. So did my wife. The police were great, but always a phone call away. I'm an out-of-shape father of two. I made my choice for the reasons I stated. You seem to think that is somehow flawed.

Your cursing is childish.

(May 2, 2017 at 8:06 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(May 2, 2017 at 7:58 pm)Brian37 Wrote: In evolution, "fight" doesn't always equal success, that is simply testosterone talking. There are species of crabs and lizards that evolved to give up a limb and flee that end up re growing. While fight can succeed, flight wins as well. To think of "fight" as a default position is stupid. Survival doesn't care if flight wins, it is still survival.

ADAPTATION matters more than your own ego. The best intent in the world doesn't mean shit if you die.

And yet you'd carry openly...

Huh, who me? FUCK NO. Where in this post did I ever claim I wanted to or do? I have not touched a firearm since I was 18 and I am 50 now. 

I think if one is going to own a firearm, they cant have any sort of utopia delusion that every use will have the same happy ending. If I see someone without a badge or a uniform with a weapon, my instinct is going to put distance between me and them. How the fuck am I supposed to tell if I don't know them, who they are and what their intent is?

(May 2, 2017 at 8:38 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(May 2, 2017 at 8:06 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: And yet you'd carry openly...

Huh, who me? FUCK NO. Where in this post did I ever claim I wanted to or do? I have not touched a firearm since I was 18 and I am 50 now. 

I think if one is going to own a firearm, they cant have any sort of utopia delusion that every use will have the same happy ending. If I see someone without a badge or a uniform with a weapon, my instinct is going to put distance between me and them. How the fuck am I supposed to tell if I don't know them, who they are and what their intent is?

Forgive me if I missed something, but weren't you the one that would shot me in the head if I stabbed you? I admit to being very sleepy right now, so apologies if that was someone else.