(May 2, 2017 at 7:38 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: "It's as easy as 1-2-3"

And now there are 1-2-3 pages!

How did you predict that would happen?

Because you ARE the messiah!

No, he's a very naughty boy.

(May 4, 2017 at 9:12 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(May 4, 2017 at 7:58 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I've never had fatih.

That's too bad. I sincerely hope that soon you receive the internal testimony of the Holy Spirit.

That's rather like wishing a broken leg on someone because you have one.

(May 5, 2017 at 11:36 am)Cyberman Wrote:

(May 4, 2017 at 9:12 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: That's too bad. I sincerely hope that soon you receive the internal testimony of the Holy Spirit.

That's rather like wishing a broken leg on someone because you have one.

It's more like when my wife says, "Maybe you should see a doctor about that."

And you don't and say "It's fine, I rather like it". I know; I was that soldier.

(May 1, 2017 at 12:11 pm)Whateverist Wrote: These are instructions for how to be religious without being a science moron.  To be fair the market for these instructions is apt to be minuscule.  I am not therefore seeking any trademark.

Instructions:

1) Think about the core mystery of your religion.  (Okay, I'll break "think about" down for you; I realize you may be a little out of shape.)  Whatever it is that you think of as supernatural, consider how it is that anyone ever found out about that stuff.  I mean all of the priest class agrees you can't detect it with an instrument of science nowadays.  The usual story is that the mystery itself reached out to some ancient scribe, possessed his body and wrote out everything He/they/it wanted known about itself .. and then went back into hiding.  At this point you have to decide whether your faith is in the core mystery of your religion or the claims of some ancient scribes.  If it's in the latter, you're doing faith wrong.  Try again.

2) Okay, if you got past step one you now realize that faith requires open ended-ness.  You can't dictate the details of God's nature or intentions.  If you're feeling a little insecure and humbled, you're actually on the right path now.  Keep it up.

3) Next step, think about the nature of science.  It is not a body of facts.  It is a method of empirical investigation, the observational facts and theories which arise are always subject to reinterpretation.  But the beauty is in the openness of process and how readily one can assess the soundness of the experiments proposed to test the hypotheses.  You can trust science-the-method to investigate the nature of the empirical world more than any other method ever proposed.  In the absence of an authoritative alternative, scientific theory represents the best operating hypotheses for what's out there.  Embrace it, it won't bite - and cannot conflict with your religious faith if done correctly.

You may now walk in faith regarding the central mysteries of who and what we are and any purposes you feel accrues to that, keeping in mind that little ole' you do not control the nature of that mystery; presumably the actual state of affairs is vice versa.  But by picking up and embracing the mantle of science you need not go blindly into the (empirical) world.  Rather you may stride confidently knowing you enjoy the fruits of a long history of careful investigation, which at its core is just as humble and open as you're now trying to be.  That's it.  Carry on.

Here we go again and again along the same demented path in which if something is not understood by physical science then it doesn't exist and the blind followers clap their hands to the new Messiah. (Kudos in abundance)

How sad Whatever!  

In the past when jets didn't exist it was thought that the eagle fly higher.
Now people think that jets and other objects fly higher.
In the future when the mind-consciousness of our future generations will be able to communicate telepathically to other beings from different evolved planets then human consciousness will reach new
heights and the knowledge will exit the sky limits to merge into the real McCoy but idiots still don't get it.

(May 7, 2017 at 5:52 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(May 1, 2017 at 12:11 pm)Whateverist Wrote: These are instructions for how to be religious without being a science moron.  To be fair the market for these instructions is apt to be minuscule.  I am not therefore seeking any trademark.

Instructions:

1) Think about the core mystery of your religion.  (Okay, I'll break "think about" down for you; I realize you may be a little out of shape.)  Whatever it is that you think of as supernatural, consider how it is that anyone ever found out about that stuff.  I mean all of the priest class agrees you can't detect it with an instrument of science nowadays.  The usual story is that the mystery itself reached out to some ancient scribe, possessed his body and wrote out everything He/they/it wanted known about itself .. and then went back into hiding.  At this point you have to decide whether your faith is in the core mystery of your religion or the claims of some ancient scribes.  If it's in the latter, you're doing faith wrong.  Try again.

2) Okay, if you got past step one you now realize that faith requires open ended-ness.  You can't dictate the details of God's nature or intentions.  If you're feeling a little insecure and humbled, you're actually on the right path now.  Keep it up.

3) Next step, think about the nature of science.  It is not a body of facts.  It is a method of empirical investigation, the observational facts and theories which arise are always subject to reinterpretation.  But the beauty is in the openness of process and how readily one can assess the soundness of the experiments proposed to test the hypotheses.  You can trust science-the-method to investigate the nature of the empirical world more than any other method ever proposed.  In the absence of an authoritative alternative, scientific theory represents the best operating hypotheses for what's out there.  Embrace it, it won't bite - and cannot conflict with your religious faith if done correctly.

You may now walk in faith regarding the central mysteries of who and what we are and any purposes you feel accrues to that, keeping in mind that little ole' you do not control the nature of that mystery; presumably the actual state of affairs is vice versa.  But by picking up and embracing the mantle of science you need not go blindly into the (empirical) world.  Rather you may stride confidently knowing you enjoy the fruits of a long history of careful investigation, which at its core is just as humble and open as you're now trying to be.  That's it.  Carry on.

Here we go again and again along the same demented path in which if something is not understood by physical science then it doesn't exist and the blind followers clap their hands to the new Messiah. (Kudos in abundance)

How sad Whatever!  

In the past when jets didn't exist it was thought that the eagle fly higher.
Now people think that jets and other objects fly higher.
In the future when the mind-consciousness of our future generations will be able to communicate telepathically to other beings from different evolved planets then human consciousness will reach new
heights and the knowledge will exit the sky limits to merge into the real McCoy but idiots still don't get it.

I do not see anywhere in Whateverist's post where he states that "if something is not understood by physical science then it doesn't exist".

It is well known by scientists, that there is a incredible amount of things not currently known by science, that do exist. Whateverist never contradicts that fact.

What can be said, is that, there is no justification to believe things exist until such a time there is scientific evidence to support them.

Gods my exist, but without demonstrable evidence and reasoned argument (neither of which you know anything about) what is the warrant to believe they do?

(May 7, 2017 at 5:52 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(May 1, 2017 at 12:11 pm)Whateverist Wrote: These are instructions for how to be religious without being a science moron.  To be fair the market for these instructions is apt to be minuscule.  I am not therefore seeking any trademark.

Instructions:

1) Think about the core mystery of your religion.  (Okay, I'll break "think about" down for you; I realize you may be a little out of shape.)  Whatever it is that you think of as supernatural, consider how it is that anyone ever found out about that stuff.  I mean all of the priest class agrees you can't detect it with an instrument of science nowadays.  The usual story is that the mystery itself reached out to some ancient scribe, possessed his body and wrote out everything He/they/it wanted known about itself .. and then went back into hiding.  At this point you have to decide whether your faith is in the core mystery of your religion or the claims of some ancient scribes.  If it's in the latter, you're doing faith wrong.  Try again.

2) Okay, if you got past step one you now realize that faith requires open ended-ness.  You can't dictate the details of God's nature or intentions.  If you're feeling a little insecure and humbled, you're actually on the right path now.  Keep it up.

3) Next step, think about the nature of science.  It is not a body of facts.  It is a method of empirical investigation, the observational facts and theories which arise are always subject to reinterpretation.  But the beauty is in the openness of process and how readily one can assess the soundness of the experiments proposed to test the hypotheses.  You can trust science-the-method to investigate the nature of the empirical world more than any other method ever proposed.  In the absence of an authoritative alternative, scientific theory represents the best operating hypotheses for what's out there.  Embrace it, it won't bite - and cannot conflict with your religious faith if done correctly.

You may now walk in faith regarding the central mysteries of who and what we are and any purposes you feel accrues to that, keeping in mind that little ole' you do not control the nature of that mystery; presumably the actual state of affairs is vice versa.  But by picking up and embracing the mantle of science you need not go blindly into the (empirical) world.  Rather you may stride confidently knowing you enjoy the fruits of a long history of careful investigation, which at its core is just as humble and open as you're now trying to be.  That's it.  Carry on.

Here we go again and again along the same demented path in which if something is not understood by physical science then it doesn't exist and the blind followers clap their hands to the new Messiah. (Kudos in abundance)

How sad Whatever!  

In the past when jets didn't exist it was thought that the eagle fly higher.
Now people think that jets and other objects fly higher.
In the future when the mind-consciousness of our future generations will be able to communicate telepathically to other beings from different evolved planets then human consciousness will reach new
heights and the knowledge will exit the sky limits to merge into the real McCoy but idiots still don't get it.

I'm sad too, Rik. Sad to learn you are reading comprehension challenged in addition to real world adverse.

Try again. I never said science is the only way to know. In fact, I was specifically laying out how one might remain scientifically literate while maintaining beliefs which cannot be verified by science. But nuance is probably the first thing to go once you adopt the spiritual dogma, hey mate?

(May 5, 2017 at 11:44 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(May 5, 2017 at 11:36 am)Cyberman Wrote: That's rather like wishing a broken leg on someone because you have one.

It's more like when my wife says, "Maybe you should see a doctor about that."

Except doctors are real.

Quote:These are instructions for how to be religious without being a science moron.

(May 2, 2017 at 7:28 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: I liked religious Faith in my adolescence. The very twisted daughter of the baptist minister. Sounds like you may have known one also.

I prefer evil Faith. She was a baddass slayer, and she kicked Buffy's ass. Though she did use Buffy's body to do it...