(July 4, 2017 at 3:02 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(July 3, 2017 at 2:19 am)Succubus Wrote: Let me think about that... No.

I see your "no" and raise you a "WTF?"

Snowtracks, if your purported god only needed Homo sapiens sapiens, how do you explain the Neanderthals and multiple other varieties of humans?

[a] Satan did it
[b] Science is lying
[c] Magic brownies

It's so sad when believers try to hijack science to make their daft mythology sound real...

But that's all they've got. A creative person can shoehorn any creation myth with their perception of reality. It all breaks down at the revelation level though: if you know this by revelation, why doesn't everybody. God(s) could certainly do that. If it's true, why wouldn't we all know it's true? Divine hiddenness is at least an admission of an uncaring deity and more easily satisfied by a non-existing deity.

(July 2, 2017 at 11:29 pm)snowtracks Wrote:

---

Science actually is used to validate the Biblical account of Creation; God reveals his existence by special revelation (scripture), and nature (general revelation). Scientists interpret one, the other is interpreted by theologians. 
Scripture stated Creation accurately millenniums before scientific verification. 1'st Chapter of Genesis gives 'Day' (interpreted correctly as long but finite periods of time) in physical time sequence; whereas, 2'nd chapter, states the 'why' of Creation which is not in physical time sequence.

1. Created the physical universe 13.79 bya. Then some 9 billion years were required to create heavy elements which were a product of stellar heat. These heavy elements are needed for the formation of planets and a requirement for advance life.  Genesis 1:1 Frame of Reference is from above the Earth.

Now, the Genesis account perspective changes to just above the surface of the waters that completely covered the primordial earth. And the Genesis 'Days' begin.

2. Cleared away the interplanetary debris and partially transformed Earth’s atmosphere so light (non-visible spectrum) from the heavenly bodies could penetrate to the surface of Earth’s oceans, primary for photosynthesis.
3. Established the water cycle.
4. Formed ocean basins and continental land masses and then subsequent land plant growth,
5. Transformed the atmosphere from translucent to transparent (visible light).
6. Produced swarms of small sea animals.
7. Created birds and sea mammals.   
8. Created land mammals capable of interacting with the future human race which included bi-pedal mammals as Neanderthals (non-spirit hominid - as is all mammals; and consequently have no existence after bodily death).
9. Created human species (Adam and Eve). Endowed with a Spirit (described  as ‘made in God’s image’) which gives them many orders-of-magnitude capabilities above mammals; and will have existence after bodily death. The Spirit within 'Man' is what enabled mankind to develop a global high-tech society which God is using to fulfill his reason for the universe: Redemption*. Angels were created with a Spirit and free will, with no redemption plan; whereas, mankind is created with a Spirit and free will and a Redemption plan which some will choose for eternal connection with God, others will not and will choose separation from God.

So in the end God gives each one their eternal desire. Sidebar: God has restrictions on His freedom - He can't do anything contra to His Nature - God can't, that's right, can't torment. The torment some will experience in their eternal home is self-imposed which is of a spiritual dearth nature (expected since humans were created in the image of God and that spiritual connection then becomes severed).

*God only needed one specie - Homo sapiens sapiens. That’s why the SETI Institute is wasting resources*. God has already created two Spirit creatures with free will as described above. Would be no reason to create a Spirit endowed creature without free will.

**expected to find simple life organism on Moon, Mars, due to the Late Heavy Bombardment (LHB) period (Hadean eon) that jettison microbial life from meteoric and comet impacts upon the Earth.

---

Oh lawd, stay this mans ignorant and vile tongue that we may be spared further torture from this abomination of a thread. RaaaaaaaMen.

(July 2, 2017 at 11:29 pm)snowtracks Wrote:

(June 22, 2017 at 4:02 am)ignoramus Wrote: I suppose on an atheist forum, the 2 lowest common denominators are fantasy vs reality.
The bible is the engine room for fantasy and science the engine room for reality.

And never the twain shall meet.

Science actually is used to validate the Biblical account of Creation; God reveals his existence by special revelation (scripture), and nature (general revelation). Scientists interpret one, the other is interpreted by theologians. 
Scripture stated Creation accurately millenniums before scientific verification. 1'st Chapter of Genesis gives 'Day' (interpreted correctly as long but finite periods of time) in physical time sequence; whereas, 2'nd chapter, states the 'why' of Creation which is not in physical time sequence.

1. Created the physical universe 13.79 bya. Then some 9 billion years were required to create heavy elements which were a product of stellar heat. These heavy elements are needed for the formation of planets and a requirement for advance life.  Genesis 1:1 Frame of Reference is from above the Earth.

Now, the Genesis account perspective changes to just above the surface of the waters that completely covered the primordial earth. And the Genesis 'Days' begin.

2. Cleared away the interplanetary debris and partially transformed Earth’s atmosphere so light (non-visible spectrum) from the heavenly bodies could penetrate to the surface of Earth’s oceans, primary for photosynthesis.
3. Established the water cycle.
4. Formed ocean basins and continental land masses and then subsequent land plant growth,
5. Transformed the atmosphere from translucent to transparent (visible light).
6. Produced swarms of small sea animals.
7. Created birds and sea mammals.   
8. Created land mammals capable of interacting with the future human race which included bi-pedal mammals as Neanderthals (non-spirit hominid - as is all mammals; and consequently have no existence after bodily death).
9. Created human species (Adam and Eve). Endowed with a Spirit (described  as ‘made in God’s image’) which gives them many orders-of-magnitude capabilities above mammals; and will have existence after bodily death. The Spirit within 'Man' is what enabled mankind to develop a global high-tech society which God is using to fulfill his reason for the universe: Redemption*. Angels were created with a Spirit and free will, with no redemption plan; whereas, mankind is created with a Spirit and free will and a Redemption plan which some will choose for eternal connection with God, others will not and will choose separation from God.

So in the end God gives each one their eternal desire. Sidebar: God has restrictions on His freedom - He can't do anything contra to His Nature - God can't, that's right, can't torment. The torment some will experience in their eternal home is self-imposed which is of a spiritual dearth nature (expected since humans were created in the image of God and that spiritual connection then becomes severed).

*God only needed one specie - Homo sapiens sapiens. That’s why the SETI Institute is wasting resources*. God has already created two Spirit creatures with free will as described above. Would be no reason to create a Spirit endowed creature without free will.

**expected to find simple life organism on Moon, Mars, due to the Late Heavy Bombardment (LHB) period (Hadean eon) that jettison microbial life from meteoric and comet impacts upon the Earth.
  

The fact that there is no evidence to corroborate your interpretation of genesis and the fact that the sequences are out of order, probably don't bother you?

For instance, mammals first evolved on land. Aquatic mammals didn't come first.

The water cycle was probably established quite early on based on isotopic evidence from the Jack Hills zircons

There were no continental landmasses on the early earth. The world was basically one big "ocean basin" early on. You didn't get continents for billions of years


Cheers
TheBeardedDude

(July 4, 2017 at 3:02 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(July 3, 2017 at 2:19 am)Succubus Wrote: Let me think about that... No.

I see your "no" and raise you a "WTF?"

Snowtracks, if your purported god only needed Homo sapiens sapiens, how do you explain the Neanderthals and multiple other varieties of humans?

[a] Satan did it
[b] Science is lying
[c] Magic brownies

It's so sad when believers try to hijack science to make their daft mythology sound real...

It's remarkable how he can be so precise:

Quote:Created the physical universe 13.79 bya.

And yet:

Quote:Angels were created with a Spirit and free will, with no redemption plan;

Sounds like a dodgy pension plan to me.

(July 4, 2017 at 3:15 pm)TheBeardedDude Wrote:

(July 2, 2017 at 11:29 pm)snowtracks Wrote: Science actually is used to validate the Biblical account of Creation; God reveals his existence by special revelation (scripture), and nature (general revelation). Scientists interpret one, the other is interpreted by theologians. 
Scripture stated Creation accurately millenniums before scientific verification. 1'st Chapter of Genesis gives 'Day' (interpreted correctly as long but finite periods of time) in physical time sequence; whereas, 2'nd chapter, states the 'why' of Creation which is not in physical time sequence.

1. Created the physical universe 13.79 bya. Then some 9 billion years were required to create heavy elements which were a product of stellar heat. These heavy elements are needed for the formation of planets and a requirement for advance life.  Genesis 1:1 Frame of Reference is from above the Earth.

Now, the Genesis account perspective changes to just above the surface of the waters that completely covered the primordial earth. And the Genesis 'Days' begin.

2. Cleared away the interplanetary debris and partially transformed Earth’s atmosphere so light (non-visible spectrum) from the heavenly bodies could penetrate to the surface of Earth’s oceans, primary for photosynthesis.
3. Established the water cycle.
4. Formed ocean basins and continental land masses and then subsequent land plant growth,
5. Transformed the atmosphere from translucent to transparent (visible light).
6. Produced swarms of small sea animals.
7. Created birds and sea mammals.   
8. Created land mammals capable of interacting with the future human race which included bi-pedal mammals as Neanderthals (non-spirit hominid - as is all mammals; and consequently have no existence after bodily death).
9. Created human species (Adam and Eve). Endowed with a Spirit (described  as ‘made in God’s image’) which gives them many orders-of-magnitude capabilities above mammals; and will have existence after bodily death. The Spirit within 'Man' is what enabled mankind to develop a global high-tech society which God is using to fulfill his reason for the universe: Redemption*. Angels were created with a Spirit and free will, with no redemption plan; whereas, mankind is created with a Spirit and free will and a Redemption plan which some will choose for eternal connection with God, others will not and will choose separation from God.

So in the end God gives each one their eternal desire. Sidebar: God has restrictions on His freedom - He can't do anything contra to His Nature - God can't, that's right, can't torment. The torment some will experience in their eternal home is self-imposed which is of a spiritual dearth nature (expected since humans were created in the image of God and that spiritual connection then becomes severed).

*God only needed one specie - Homo sapiens sapiens. That’s why the SETI Institute is wasting resources*. God has already created two Spirit creatures with free will as described above. Would be no reason to create a Spirit endowed creature without free will.

**expected to find simple life organism on Moon, Mars, due to the Late Heavy Bombardment (LHB) period (Hadean eon) that jettison microbial life from meteoric and comet impacts upon the Earth.
  

The fact that there is no evidence to corroborate your interpretation of genesis and the fact that the sequences are out of order, probably don't bother you?

For instance, mammals first evolved on land. Aquatic mammals didn't come first.

The water cycle was probably established quite early on based on isotopic evidence from the Jack Hills zircons

There were no continental landmasses on the early earth. The world was basically one big "ocean basin" early on. You didn't get continents for billions of years


Cheers
TheBeardedDude

It wouldn't even matter if Snowtracks was completely right about a correlation between the Genesis account in the bible and scientific observation regarding this(he isn't), He would still have to show a mechanism, he can't, he would still have to show correlation, he can't and he would still have to show how this differs from magic and he can't.

Everything we have ever observer and understood about universal, galactic, stellar and planetary formation has good natural evidence and no supernatural agent required.

It requires special revelation, that is special pleading. Case closed.

Theist have never connected the dots on this, be they creationists of any stripe, Idiots or whatever.

The science does not confirm anything they say, they need to provide evidence that does not suck donkey balls.

This is still going?

(July 4, 2017 at 3:02 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(July 3, 2017 at 2:19 am)Succubus Wrote: Let me think about that... No.

I see your "no" and raise you a "WTF?"

Snowtracks, if your purported god only needed Homo sapiens sapiens, how do you explain the Neanderthals and multiple other varieties of humans?

---

[a] Satan did it
[b] Science is lying
[c] Magic brownies

It's so sad when believers try to hijack science to make their daft mythology sound real...

---

Was mentioned*: Bipedal Locomotion is common design, not common descent. Would be expected the Creator would use this methodology. They served a purpose like all the other mammals. 
Researchers have attempted to identify the common ancestor** that gave rise or modern humans and Neanderthals, but that connection remains elusive. This does not bode well for the idea of human evolution. But again, Neanderthals are hominids that are not endowed with a Spirit. Humans are unique physically and more importantly are spiritual endowed creatures. No doubt hominids were amazing animals, as are all of God’s creatures. But humans stand alone as the crown of creation.

*8. Created land mammals capable of interacting with the future human race which included bi-pedal mammals as Neanderthals (non-spirit hominid - as is all mammals; and consequently have no existence after bodily death).
**https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131021153202.htm

How do you determine what animals do/don't have a spirit?

(July 4, 2017 at 7:50 pm)snowtracks Wrote: Was mentioned*: Bipedal Locomotion is common design, not common descent. Would be expected the Creator would use this methodology.

Bipedal locomotion is just one of many attributes of hominids, and its existence in non-hominids in no way disproves common descent.

Quote:Researchers have attempted to identify the common ancestor** that gave rise or modern humans and Neanderthals, but that connection remains elusive. This does not bode well for the idea of human evolution.

I disagree.  The DNA similarities between humans and chimpanzees are, as far as I'm concerned, a slam-dunk that there was indeed a common ancestor.

Don't like the idea that you're related to another species of ape and that you aren't the special snowflake the Bible says you are?  Cry me a river.

Quote:But again, Neanderthals are hominids that are not endowed with a Spirit...

Unsupported assertion -- No evidence that *anything* is "endowed with a Spirit."  Spirit, as far as I'm concerned, has always been pure fiction -- A cozy little fable that believers tell themselves to wave away the extraordinarily high probability that nothing survives its own death.

Keep your paws off science until the day you come to a laboratory with actual empirical evidence of this "Creator" you keep talking about.

---

(July 4, 2017 at 3:32 pm)Succubus Wrote: ...And yet:

Quote:Angels were created with a Spirit and free will, with no redemption plan;

Sounds like a dodgy pension plan to me.

If I were an angel, I'd unionize.  

(July 4, 2017 at 3:15 pm)TheBeardedDude Wrote:

(July 2, 2017 at 11:29 pm)snowtracks Wrote: Science actually is used to validate the Biblical account of Creation; God reveals his existence by special revelation (scripture), and nature (general revelation). Scientists interpret one, the other is interpreted by theologians. 
Scripture stated Creation accurately millenniums before scientific verification. 1'st Chapter of Genesis gives 'Day' (interpreted correctly as long but finite periods of time) in physical time sequence; whereas, 2'nd chapter, states the 'why' of Creation which is not in physical time sequence.

1. Created the physical universe 13.79 bya. Then some 9 billion years were required to create heavy elements which were a product of stellar heat. These heavy elements are needed for the formation of planets and a requirement for advance life.  Genesis 1:1 Frame of Reference is from above the Earth.

Now, the Genesis account perspective changes to just above the surface of the waters that completely covered the primordial earth. And the Genesis 'Days' begin.

2. Cleared away the interplanetary debris and partially transformed Earth’s atmosphere so light (non-visible spectrum) from the heavenly bodies could penetrate to the surface of Earth’s oceans, primary for photosynthesis.
3. Established the water cycle.
4. Formed ocean basins and continental land masses and then subsequent land plant growth,
5. Transformed the atmosphere from translucent to transparent (visible light).
6. Produced swarms of small sea animals.
7. Created birds and sea mammals.   
8. Created land mammals capable of interacting with the future human race which included bi-pedal mammals as Neanderthals (non-spirit hominid - as is all mammals; and consequently have no existence after bodily death).
9. Created human species (Adam and Eve). Endowed with a Spirit (described  as ‘made in God’s image’) which gives them many orders-of-magnitude capabilities above mammals; and will have existence after bodily death. The Spirit within 'Man' is what enabled mankind to develop a global high-tech society which God is using to fulfill his reason for the universe: Redemption*. Angels were created with a Spirit and free will, with no redemption plan; whereas, mankind is created with a Spirit and free will and a Redemption plan which some will choose for eternal connection with God, others will not and will choose separation from God.

So in the end God gives each one their eternal desire. Sidebar: God has restrictions on His freedom - He can't do anything contra to His Nature - God can't, that's right, can't torment. The torment some will experience in their eternal home is self-imposed which is of a spiritual dearth nature (expected since humans were created in the image of God and that spiritual connection then becomes severed).

*God only needed one specie - Homo sapiens sapiens. That’s why the SETI Institute is wasting resources*. God has already created two Spirit creatures with free will as described above. Would be no reason to create a Spirit endowed creature without free will.

**expected to find simple life organism on Moon, Mars, due to the Late Heavy Bombardment (LHB) period (Hadean eon) that jettison microbial life from meteoric and comet impacts upon the Earth.
  

The fact that there is no evidence to corroborate your interpretation of genesis and the fact that the sequences are out of order, probably don't bother you?

For instance, mammals first evolved on land. Aquatic mammals didn't come first.

The water cycle was probably established quite early on based on isotopic evidence from the Jack Hills zircons

There were no continental landmasses on the early earth. The world was basically one big "ocean basin" early on. You didn't get continents for billions of years


Cheers
TheBeardedDude

Even evolution theory recognizes that land mammals returned to the sea. Why did marine mammals go back to the sea? http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/ocean-gia...tion/7577/
------------
Water cycle is listed early (above).
-------------------------------------
Continental landmasses - likewise listed early.