(July 17, 2017 at 7:21 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: So, when you're processing things, the way I am right now, you realize that a day with a god, is really a day without you imagining one. How should I say this, but if a god exists, he/it is there, whether I believe or not, right? But, that's just it. If I stop believing, all of the ''powers'' that I've bestowed upon a deity...were really all in my imagination. That's just so crazy to think of it that way.

This is progress.

I'm still not sure how you wound up thinking otherwise in the first place, lol.   Your believing in a god didn't seem to have anything to do with gods, or any external component whatsoever.

Are you familiar with idolization, godhead, and focal ritualism?

(July 10, 2017 at 8:45 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, Simon. I don't know ''how to be'' like you describe yourself as being. I just don't. I want to, and there is some envy in me for atheists who never question, never waiver, never doubt their position. It seems like you never looked back at the faith you left behind. That's not everyone, we're all different.

I never said I "never question, never waiver, never doubt their position".

I am completely open to the possibility that a god or gods exist. All I require is demonstrable evidence, reasoned argument and valid and sound logic to support accepting the god claim as being true.

Quote:You're wrong in that I don't not care if my beliefs are true, and only that they make me feel good...rather, I view my beliefs as if there is comfort and peace from them, then maybe there is truth behind what is bringing that peace. Of course, this is why I'm at a cross roads because I've discovered that comfort doesn't equate to truth. And faith hasn't been bringing comfort, to be honest. Not like it once did before I left it and identified as an atheist, anyway. But, truth...while maybe not entirely comforting or comfortable, will most likely bring a sustainable peace. I don't want to ''use'' faith as an escape from discomfort or my own fears of relying on myself, and maybe I have been doing that for a while. I'm sorting this out, so we'll see.

I think it is great that you are sorting this out!

If you truly care whether your beliefs are true or not, ignore (temporarily) the actual claim you are examining, and look at the various methods that are available to examine various truth claims. One method is the obvious winner to discern truth from fiction, and that is using demonstrable evidence and valid and sound logic.

To repeat from my earlier post, there isn't anything that can't be believed on faith. Including many things you probably don't believe (that you may actually consider silly beliefs), that other people believe based on faith.

And just to clarify, when I say that I disbelieve claims that are not supported by evidence and valid and sound logic. I am not saying that I believe they are not true (don't exist), only that there is no warrant to believe they are true.

Disbelieving a claim is not the same as believing the claim is untrue.

(July 17, 2017 at 7:21 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: So, when you're processing things, the way I am right now, you realize that a day with a god, is really a day without you imagining one. How should I say this, but if a god exists, he/it is there, whether I believe or not, right? But, that's just it. If I stop believing, all of the ''powers'' that I've bestowed upon a deity...were really all in my imagination. That's just so crazy to think of it that way.

This is progress.

If I could rep you again for this comment, I would. Your willingness to critically evaluate your emotions, the way you check back against reality, the way you seek different perspectives to help your thinking, the way you ask for review and external input... I'm truly impressed. You're quite the role model, young lady.

(July 17, 2017 at 8:12 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(July 17, 2017 at 7:21 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: So, when you're processing things, the way I am right now, you realize that a day with a god, is really a day without you imagining one. How should I say this, but if a god exists, he/it is there, whether I believe or not, right? But, that's just it. If I stop believing, all of the ''powers'' that I've bestowed upon a deity...were really all in my imagination. That's just so crazy to think of it that way.

This is progress.

I'm still not sure how you wound up thinking otherwise in the first place, lol.   Your believing in a god didn't seem to have anything to do with gods, or any external component whatsoever.  

Are you familiar with idolization, godhead, and focal ritualism?

But you can convince yourself of a lot of things, if fear is the main motivator. Fear of not believing. Fear of emptiness. Fear of anything causing me to feel discomfort. Not even fear of a god, but fear of one's self without the idea of the god in one's life. That's the thing. Of course we feel discomfort in our lives from time to time, but when you convince yourself that you have this crutch all the time to sort of help you hobble your way through it, you aren't as afraid. Since I was a young child, I was taught this, and it was all wrapped up in ''faith is a mystery.'' But, I feel really optimistic about the future now, unlike before when I went through this. Before, I think it was more of the determination that I thought like an atheist, but I didn't bother to think of the emotional side of it. But, maybe it all had to play out this way, for now my conclusion is not only on an intellectual front, but also on an emotional one. I simply don't want to hold onto the crutch of religion anymore, because it's a crutch of my own making. 

(And tbh, laziness plays a factor too, I mean...it's not easy to examine your true reasons for why you believe what you believe. So you rug sweep, and say...well, I was taught this, or I don't believe ALL of it, or I don't believe the BAD things about the faith, and so on. So there's a certain amount of complacency that goes on in a believer's mind, I think, when they start bumping up against doubts about their beliefs. Complacency is a safe space, in some ways. But, eventually, your doubts continue to grow and like the show Hoarders...you have a huge mess on your hands, that takes a lot more sorting through.)

It's easy to say if you've never struggled with something like this ...''well, your mind knows the truth, so that should be enough.'' But, we are more than just our thoughts, or intellect. We have emotions and while they shouldn't govern us, we can sometimes find comfort in the strangest things. Even make believe things.

(July 17, 2017 at 8:39 pm)Ben Davis Wrote:

(July 17, 2017 at 7:21 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: So, when you're processing things, the way I am right now, you realize that a day with a god, is really a day without you imagining one. How should I say this, but if a god exists, he/it is there, whether I believe or not, right? But, that's just it. If I stop believing, all of the ''powers'' that I've bestowed upon a deity...were really all in my imagination. That's just so crazy to think of it that way.

This is progress.

If I could rep you again for this comment, I would. Your willingness to critically evaluate your emotions, the way you check back against reality, the way you seek different perspectives to help your thinking, the way you ask for review and external input... I'm truly impressed. You're quite the role model, young lady.

You're too kind Ben!! I feel some days like a failure for having been weak after my grandmother's death, but I can't change it. I'm glad to have this community, and my own friends offline, who are super supportive.

(July 17, 2017 at 9:45 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: You're too kind Ben!!

Not at all. I'm simply giving recognition where it's due. You've done yourself proud.

Quote:I feel some days like a failure for having been weak after my grandmother's death, but I can't change it.

Would a 'failure' be where you are now?

You've discovered a lot in dealing with your grief. You should take courage in what you've achieved and what you've learned but more importantly, the way you did it. Like you said, it's the progress that counts. You can ignore any arbitrary indicators of 'success'.

Quote: I'm glad to have this community, and my own friends offline, who are super supportive.

That's probably the most important thing; friends who are willing and able to do so. You placed a lot of trust in us by sharing your journey. I hope we've lived up to your expectations.

Today's been a rough day. I'm thinking about my grandmother and some of the bad parts of my childhood and coming to terms with it, faith-free. That's weird to no longer convince myself that all this pain is for a grand plan of God. It's ok to hurt and feel the pain of losing someone important and not finding excuses for it. More progress

(July 19, 2017 at 1:20 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: Today's been a rough day. I'm thinking about my grandmother and some of the bad parts of my childhood and coming to terms with it, faith-free. That's weird to no longer convince myself that all this pain is for a grand plan of God. It's ok to hurt and feel the pain of losing someone important and not finding excuses for it. More progress

I believe we can all empathise.

(July 19, 2017 at 1:20 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: Today's been a rough day. I'm thinking about my grandmother and some of the bad parts of my childhood and coming to terms with it, faith-free. That's weird to no longer convince myself that all this pain is for a grand plan of God. It's ok to hurt and feel the pain of losing someone important and not finding excuses for it. More progress

You can do this :-)

Grief and loss has been described by researchers as a "grief spiral", something that comes and goes, hits you again just when you think maybe you have it handled, but each "wave" is of overall gradually decreasing amplitude. These things get better; allow them to happen. Each "bad" day is just your subconscious spoon feeding your new reality to you. "Bad" days mean you're moving along through the process. It seems unending, but it's finite.

Grief isn't just for grandma, it's also for the "bad parts" of one's childhood or anything else you lost, feel cheated out of, or whatever.

Go ahead and feel what you feel, and know that it's normal.

I hope it passes quickly, and that you can move on to acceptance, integration, and ultimately, better days.

Today ...is a good day. Feeling strong and resolved might be the word? Part of all of this comes down to not being a slave to one's emotions, as faith beliefs are built on emotions and vulnerability.

Woke up today with an almost automatic way of looking at the new day - wanting to thank God for the new day. I guess old habits will die hard with this change. But, I changed the wording, and just greeted the new day, with some positive reflections. I'm one of those types that likes to meditate for a bit in the morning when waking up to bring on the new day. It just was always a homage to God up until recently. There's still that pit in my stomach that I'm doing something ''wrong,'' and I wonder when that will go away. Gah, I shouldn't feel guilty. :/